Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

[minieball]

I ran this by several of my learned friends who cautiously lean toward a clean bill on this image. This image purports to show a large group of Federals just before Chickamauga, September 1863.

If this is legit then it is a very exciting find indeed.

What say all of you??

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/74063-1-4-Plate-Tintype-Union-Soldiers-at-Chickamauga_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ28267QQihZ007QQitemZ170118088319QQrdZ1

[JLHurst]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

I find it pretty interesting.

1st man, 2nd row, bottom left. Is that a backwards cap?

Dead center almost last row. Wheelcap?

1st left bottom row & 2nd left 2nd row. What's up with holding up the kicks. That HAD to be uncomfortable!

again, very interesting.... I count 4 mustaches and two beards. Lots of clean shaven boys there. . .but considering how young some of them look.

[DougCooper]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

Cautiously? We talked about this on another board and our basic reaction is: Why on earth would anyone think it is not legit? To me this is one of the finest candid photos of federal soldiers in the field to surface ever. I hope a collection surfaces.

It would be nice to know more about the provenance as to Chickamauga. Maybe some folks think it suspect because as we all know, western feds did not wear forage caps

Still, just to be safe (in case it is a fake), can we put it on the cover of the A/C for July? :D IMHO, this is precisely the kind of photo that should be on there...

[Charles Hollis]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

It seems too casual to be real. It has my vote for the July cover.

[CYoungJSU]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

I received my catalog from Heritage Auctions, a professional auction company, a few weeks ago and this photo was in there. I thought it very interesting. Take a look at the tampions in the rifle muzzles...

I actually won a bid on an 1848 Henry Clay daguerreotype from H.A. a few months ago. They seem to know what they are doing and talking about. I expect it to be completely trustworthy information or at least the information they were provided...

[minieball]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

Well if its a fake then it would have to be a considerable conspiracy due to the number of co-conspirators

A friend and good authority pointed out there's documentation of Federals wearing their caps backward in battle. My cynical side suggested an early example of hip hop culture...

My thoughts are if no one on this forum recognizes these guys then it must be legit. We all know the level of detail most frequenters of this forum strive for....and if any modern day group could pull this off they would be known here.

Its a cool picture and it sure adds to our collective knowledge

[JLHurst]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

if any modern day group could pull this off they would be known here.

I would agree 100% with that statment. But not everyone reviews the photos section that frequent as well. One would hope though that if there was a face recognized, that he would be "outed".

[DougCooper]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

Folks this speculation is nonsense, pure nonsense. Of course it is real!!! Can someone tell me any remotely plausible reason why you think this might be a fake? We have come full circle I guess - some of us judge the accuracy of real photos based on what reenactors look like! Its PEC gone mad!

I know part of the problem - Can we PLEASE FINALLY STOP USING REENACTOR PICTURES on the AC cover? The monthly contest could be a search for little known jewels like this where we could all learn something. This would replace a self congratulatory contest of no purpose over a small supply of images, 99% of which are obviously reenactor photos, and the other 1% take a bit more scrutiny.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

If you want to talk about the photo, fine ... it's a wonderful period image, but please don't debate whether or not its a reproduction. That's just silly - of course it's real. I completely agree with Doug on that point.

[Greg Renault]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

I rather like Doug's suggestion to use period pictures on the AC cover. I've always valued the period images (like this one) that members post and discuss here. They are often buried in the discussion threads, so I would welcome a more prominent placement.

Back to the pic in question. The number of tompions supports those ordnance returns that indicate a significant number of rifle-musket accessories were retained in the field. I also note that a sizeable minority of these young guys have the collar of their issue shirts turned up, for a rakish, high-collar look.

[Milliron]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

Springfields across the board, as far as I can see. Any guesses as to regiment? It's as about a generic a Federal regiment as it gets. If this truly is a AoC image, it nicely belies the whole "they wore hats in the West" thing. Looks like it was taken in the field. I like the musket in the immediate foreground. This appears to be a pretty impromptu shot.

[theknapsack]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

It's WAY too easy to tell the difference between reenactors (even the best) and original soldiers in pictures. There is no way on this green earth that those are reenactors, otherwise I'm still going to some farby events.

Anyways, this is a great image! Great find, and if I had 8,000 to spare I would buy it.

Bob,
I wasn't aware of a "they wore hats in the west thing." That's a reenactorism; it didn't need to be belied.

[minieball]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

This is exactly the type of healthy discussion I was hoping to provoke. I truly think this is an exceptional image and quite legit. I must add though that several museum friends of mine did express reservations about this picture. I believe that most were motivated by "its too good to be true" .

However the best comment I received was from a well known researcher at the National Archives whos seen and handled more CW period original images than most of us will ever see in a lifetime. He said "I'd vote for real. If it's not real, those guys deserve some kind of award."

I do hope more images like this turn up. Maybe there are others as many "in the field" photographers tended to do groupings of images due the complexity of setting up their equipment, etc

Todd Harrington
Winchester,VA

[30th IL]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

I think it's real...and real captivating. I tend to collect images and I haven't seen one quite like this before. So many soldiers and so many more individual aspects to learn from each of the soldiers. "If I were a rich man...."

[Milliron]

Re: Very Interesting Photo on Ebay

Bob,
I wasn't aware of a "they wore hats in the west thing." That's a reenactorism; it didn't need to be belied.

Oh, I don't know about that. And yes it is a reenactorism. Go to your nearest 145th anniversary-of-the battle-of-something-local and you will be told that very reenactorism--often by the people in charge.