Possible Lincoln?

[clconboy]

http://www.wgal.com/news/14619871/detail.html

I thought it was neat....what do you think? i mean top hat and beard....kinda generic for the period...but neat anyway.

on the right of the webpage is a thumb nail that shows the image zoomed in.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Possable Lincoln?

Well, since Lincoln was the only man to ever wear a top hat and beard mid-century...

:)

Seriously, though, I think the article writer is stretching a lot to speculate that direction with such a meager image.

[DaveGink]

Re: Possable Lincoln?

It is interesting.

The crowd does seem to be focused in that direction with what looks like some people cheering and waving. With some in the back standing on things to get a better view. You can just make out that the man is on horseback. And the route he is riding through appears to be lined by a number of mounted Cavalry (you can see their backs towards the camera). I don't know that it's such a stretch when you really look at it, and consider it was taken on that day, with the crowd (and camera) focused in that direction.

[Chessa]

Re: Possable Lincoln?

Well, since Lincoln was the only man to ever wear a top hat and beard mid-century...

Thats the same thing I said when looking at the article this morning in SC :D

That would be neat if it really was Lincoln, though.

[mtvernon]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

I'm not saying anything one way or the other, but the gates in the supposed image resemble the gates at Evergreen Cemetery in Gettysburg. It's not an exact match. For instance, the pillars of the gates have windows on what we'll call two 'storeys' of the pillars. In the alleged image, there's a different setup to these pillars. The capital of it looks very similar, as does the general shape and size.

I am no expert, but this just sort of leaped out at me. It would be exciting if this were the case. Perhaps the gates in the alleged image are the reverse of the attached image? Maybe not, I don't know. Hopefully more astute historians than myself will be able to figure this one out. But if it's a wild goose chase, it's a pretty fun wild goose.

[biddler165]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

Joe,
I believe the reported image to be taken from the opposite side of the gate. The smaller building on the right , in your photo, is on the left in the reported Lincoln image.
What struck me as odd was the absence of trees. In the image Joe attached there are trees in the background, but in the other image there are none.

[mtvernon]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

What struck me as odd was the absence of trees. In the image Joe attached there are trees in the background, but in the other image there are none.

That's true, but I cannot find a date for the picture I attached. Maybe it was 30 or 40 years later for all I know...or it could be a different gate. I"m not sure.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

What struck me as odd was the absence of trees. In the image Joe attached there are trees in the background, but in the other image there are none.

One thing I noticed when visiting the modern cemetery was that all the trees were specimen plantings: a buckeye tree by the Ohio graves, a pine or cypress for mourning symbolism, etc. Therefore, I figured the land must have been cleared at one point and the trees all deliberately planted with a landscaping plan in mind. Not surprising, since it was a common mindset of the period and the previous couple of decades as well, to lay out cemeteries as ornamental park-like grounds.

I've never looked up when the planting was done, but if it was soon after the cemetery was laid out, it would of course be pretty bare-looking for a while.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

You're seeing the back side of the gate to the Evergreen Cemetary in the photo. The image joe posted is the front side of the gate. It would be impossible to see the front side of the gate from the location in the photo.

There weren't that many mature trees in the Evergreen Cemetary in 1863, and most of them suffered severe damage during the battle. The new national cemetary was still under construction and pretty much bare ground. The trees in the photo Joe attached are not that tall and would not be visible above the crowd from the angle the Lincoln photo was taken.

Hank is correct about the specimen plantings in the national cemetary. I don't know the exact date they were planted - possibly in the 1870s or even 1880s - but it was done as part of a planned landscape design.

[Danny]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

One thing I noticed when visiting the modern cemetery was that all the trees were specimen plantings...Hank Trenthanktrent@voyager.net

Hank -

As usual you've made a very astute observation. Any ideas on what that kind of crutch- looking thing is sticking up into the air ahead of the alleged Lincoln? I have a feeling I'm missing the obvious, as I wonder is it in fact a crutch, or a unit banner oddly wrapped around its staff, or a brass eagle on top of a flag staff (no flag attached as yet), or, stepping out on a limb - the perch-pole for "old Abe" the Wisconsin regiment's eagle mascot (if they were even there).

That close-up attached here for quick reference.

- Dan Wykes

[DougCooper]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

Joe,
I believe the reported image to be taken from the opposite side of the gate. The smaller building on the right , in your photo, is on the left in the reported Lincoln image.
What struck me as odd was the absence of trees. In the image Joe attached there are trees in the background, but in the other image there are none.

Rick is right, this is Cemetery Hill on the day and matches several other photos at different angles showing the cleared slope, some graves, crowd, etc. One would assume the photographer had a reason to take the picture. Catching the President may have been the reason.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

Any ideas on what that kind of crutch- looking thing is sticking up into the air ahead of the alleged Lincoln? I have a feeling I'm missing the obvious, as I wonder is it in fact a crutch, or a unit banner oddly wrapped around its staff, or a brass eagle on top of a flag staff (no flag attached as yet), or, stepping out on a limb - the perch-pole for "old Abe" the Wisconsin regiment's eagle mascot (if they were even there).

Beats me. It surely does look like an eagle perched on a ball, like a flagpole top, but why no flag yet? And unfortunately, it doesn't look anything like the top of the one flag that was definitely photographed that day, shown for example at http://content.answers.com/main/cont...gettysburg.jpg

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

As you say, it fits other images we've all seen from that day. The relative difficulty of taking pictures at that time would have made the President a more likely subject than "gee, let's get a crowd shot while we're here".

Why is he thought to be on horseback? If one thing would make Lincoln stand out from a crowd at that time (or even now, to some extent), it would be his height. Whoever that is stands a head taller than those around him, and that's about right given other photos known to be Lincoln.

I doubt we'll ever be certain, but it's certainly not impossible.

[JacobReichwein]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

It doesn't look anything like Lincoln. I think that guy has a mustache.

[Danny]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

It doesn't look anything like Lincoln. I think that guy has a mustache.

Jacob-

Of course, it doesn't actually look anything like anybody. It's a really blurry photo where any shadow would look as much like a mustache as a shadow. We do know from the photo that (a) he is a he, (b) his head is above many others, (c) he is wearing a top-hat, (d) he is in a group of escorting Cavalry, (e) he is heading toward the gate, (f) the scene itself was worthy of the expense and time to take it, and (g) that it was taken on the day claimed for it.

But you're right in that there certainly were other dignitaries there, who also perhaps preferred a top-hat (not a modern fashion by that time), who also were in a group escorted by Cavalry, and with mustache (a common fashion at that time).

To me the real value of the photo is in the wide shot, were you really can sense the excitement and importance of the day in the body language of the bystanders in the sharper foreground - a couple of boys it looks like, among others.

Dan Wykes