Possible Lincoln?

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

I refer you to a similar series of images, taken at the ceremonies at Fort Sumter. At least six plates were exposed from the same vantage point, of which a couple show nothing spectacular going on at the speaker's stand.













Crowd shots aren't an unlikely photo possibility.

Furthermore, take a look at what's going on on the periphery. Keep in mind, the President of the United States is arriving. You're a soldier, in full dress uniform, assigned to the ceremony. What do you think you would be doing when the Commander in Chief makes his appearance? I realize that Presidential Protection was an entirely different ballgame 145 years ago, but really...


At least two soldiers sitting on the ground. Drummer sitting on his instrument. Arms stacked. Soldiers facing the camera, engaged in conversation. Basically, they're at "rest."


Here again, the photographer seems to be attracting more attention than anyone. Again, soldiers are not in ranks, and arms remain in stacks. A couple rifles are stuck in the ground by the bayonets, and dead-center is what I like to call the "here, kid, play with this thing" incident going on. What's that rule about not handing off your weapon to anyone else? Guess he found a loophole about civilian kids for a funny picture. Wait, the President just rode in? Oh, well, must have missed him.

In other words, unless I get more proof, I just can't buy this at face value.

[Danny]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

I refer you to a similar series of images...take a look at what's going on on the periphery... Wait, the President just rode in? Oh, well, must have missed him... In other words, unless I get more proof, I just can't buy this at face value.

Marc -

Thanks for the BIG photos. But forgive me, I have no idea what or who you are responding to, what you thought the point they were making was, or what your point was in response. Is it something about the way individuals in a crowd appear at an important period speaking event that somehow makes it less likely Lincoln was in the photo, rather than more likely?

As for the boys shown at both events - as a boy yerself once, would it have made any difference to you who was about to show up? or who was speaking at the moment or who had just left? There's a bunch of guns 'n stuff, a camera wagon, girls with pigtails etc. to mess with.

But again, thanks for the cool photos -- good study of period gear etc.

- Dan Wykes

[GermanDraftee]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

Marc -

Thanks for the BIG photos. But forgive me, I have no idea what or who you are responding to, what you thought the point they were making was, or what your point was in response. Is it something about the way individuals in a crowd appear at an important period speaking event that somehow makes it less likely Lincoln was in the photo, rather than more likely?

As for the boys shown at both events - as a boy yerself once, would it have made any difference to you who was about to show up? or who was speaking at the moment or who had just left? There's a bunch of guns 'n stuff, a camera wagon, girls with pigtails etc. to mess with.

But again, thanks for the cool photos -- good study of period gear etc.

- Dan Wykes

I believe Marc's point (correct me if I am mistaken) was that the soldiers in the Gettysburg photo are not exhibiting body language that would indicate that the commender-in-chief is present. The Fort Sumter photos show the crowd when nothing important is going on (first, second and fourth shots) and when someone is arriving/speaking. In the former, folks are looking every whichaway, men are slouching , lounging, etc. You can almost hear the low rumble of conversation. Contrast this with the third and fifth photos. Most are facing the platform. In the third photo, some are standing on the bleachers to get a better view. Everything in these two photos indicate that something important is happening.

Now, look at the Gettysburg photo. All these soldiers in full-dress uniform (including shoulder scales) are just lounging around. Their rifles are still stacked. This would indicate that nothing that is important to them and their role is happening. If they were aware that the C-i-C was present, one might expect that they would be in ranks, at attention, maybe even presenting arms. I believe Marc is saying that the posture and apparently relaxed attitude of the soldiers does not support the possibility that the guy in the hat is President Lincoln.

There may be other explanations that reconcile the soldiers relaxed attitude, even with Lincoln present in the distance. I don't know enough about the ceremonies that day, the role these soldiers had in it, etc. to say. Its a great photo, with or without Lincoln.

[Danny]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

John -

I get it now. Marc, good observations.

My understanding of the event is that the crowd had to listen to a long-winded official speech just before Lincoln stepped up to address the crowd, which might explain the casualness and fidgiting in the ranks and the crowd, or not. In any event the Cavalry was mounted and seemingly escorting somebody.

- Dan Wykes

[markj]

Re: Possible Lincoln?

The one person whose opinion counts the most seems to be missing in action. What, if anything, has William A. Frassanito said, now or in the past, regarding the alleged Lincoln ID? Frassanito has definitely discussed the Gettysburg image series at length in "Early Photography at Gettysburg."

Regards,

Mark Jaeger