Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

[roundshot]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

The Alamance County Historical Society has this photo on display and names two of these fellows. While I don't know the source (or correctness) of their identification the fellow on the right is purportedly Pvt. Robert P. Pickard of Co. B, 1st North Carolina State Troops. The guy in the center is allegedly Pvt. William B. Boggs of Company E, 13th NCT.

I did some further research on this a while back. Both are from Alamance County and may have been acquaintances. The "Roster of Alamance County Troops" confirms that Pvt. Pickard of the 1st was indeed taken prisoner at Gettysburg. The "North Carolina Troops" volumes confirms that Pvt. Boggs of the 13th was both wounded and captured at Gettysburg on July 1st and "died on either July 8th or July 25th." That may explain his emaciated look. Since the photo was likely taken on July 15th, the latter date of death is most probable. Place of death not reported.The "rings" on his hand might, in fact, be a splint.

Circumstantially at least, this ID could be possible. It is interesting to note that the Scale's Brigade (of which the 13th was a part) hospital was in close proximity to where this photo was taken. I had heard a while back that Greg Mast had also uncovered these IDs but can't confirm this. If anyone can add to this, feel free to jump in.

[OleMissRebel]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

In any case, whether the men be Union men used by Brady for a photo op or actual Confederate prisoners, they probably stink to high heaven. No photo gives you that "fresh off a 30 day campaign" feeling...

No doubt the poses are contrived, but I think it is unlikely they are Yanks dressed up. Call me crazy, it's just something about their eyes. These boys are Confederates.

[SparksBird]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

The one thing about this photo that I always noticed is the fact that they are pretty loaded down. The longer haversack, blanket roll and pack, and full haversacks were probably acquired in anticipation of a long stay in a prison camp. Some of the equipment that they are carrying probably didn't even belong to them. The quality of their hats is also fascinating. The guy on the lefts hat looks pretty rough.

Rick Musselman

[OleMissRebel]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

What is the "sitting" guy holding over his shoulder? It looks like the color of a jacket. Also, right next to his mouth looks to be a chevron maybe?

[Parault]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

As I recall my History Professor of many moons ago, told me that those three posers were deserters. They were caught during a mop up by the Federals after Gettysburg. I never took the time to find out where he got this information. I would like to know. I have a T-shirt that has their picture on the back with a caption below. I haven't worn the shirt so long I forgot what is printed.

[ajroscoe]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

I agree that most likely, these are Confederates who either deserted or were left behind when Lee left the area on the 5th of July and were hiding out or trying to escape the area when captured. I think there are some interesting features shown in this photo. All three appear to have shoes on... hopefully putting to rest for all time the "they were there to get shoes" story. The canteens from the first two men both appear to be bullseyes and uncovered. Also, the center man has both a pack and a blanket roll on, as well as the the roll over his right (firing) shoulder. I do wonder how representative these men would be if their stragglers and/or deserters. Time and time through the war, we see reports of those kinds of men disappearing when most needed and showing up when they have the most to gain from the army. I think we can all agree that those kind of men are not the best examples of a dedicated soldier, especially in regards to dress and personal appearance?

[Jimmayo]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

Don't forget that for several weeks, Confederate prisoners helped to bury the dead on the battlefield. During this process they would have had access to numerous haversacks and knapsacks and could have equipped themselves with the best Uncle Sam had issued to his troops. What may have been a ragged rebel on July 1 may have been a well provisioned and clothed prisoner on July 14th.

I can't agree with the theory that these men are Federal soldiers dressed up as Confederates. There were more than enough CS prisoners around to pose for pictures without Union soldiers playing dressup. In fact, it could be said that there was a shortage of Federal soldiers around Gettysburg after Mead left in pursuit of the retreating Confederates.

Since we are discussing a post battle image, I would strongly recomend reading Greg Coco's "A Strange and Blighted Land, Gettysburg: The Aftermath of a Battle" to achieve a better understanding of what went on around Gettysburg after the battle was over. There is more to the Gettysburg story than just three days of battle.
After reading this book, in Mr. Coco's words, "your vision of Gettysburg will be forever changed".

[Pvt.Bowz]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

I was wondering if that is a cut and re-sew job on the first guy's haversack strap? I can't quite tell. I'm looking at his right shoulder right near where the other (lighter) strap begins to cover the haversack strap. It appears that the strap has been folded over itself and that there is a knot of some kind. It also seems that his haversack would ride a little higher indicating a modification. What do you think?

Thanks,
Bob Bowser

[OleMissRebel]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

I was wondering if that is a cut and re-sew job on the first guy's haversack strap? I can't quite tell. I'm looking at his right shoulder right near where the other (lighter) strap begins to cover the haversack strap. It appears that the strap has been folded over itself and that there is a knot of some kind. It also seems that his haversack would ride a little higher indicating a modification. What do you think?

Thanks,
Bob Bowser

I agree.

It looks just like my cut and re-sew job on mine! :-)

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

It doesn't look cut, just folded. It would suck to have your stitching rot out due to sweat and the 2 pieces come apart just to have a useless haversack strap until you're able to resew it. As long as it's just folded, it won't fall off.

[GASharpshooter]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

Good points.

Don't forget that for several weeks, Confederate prisoners helped to bury the dead on the battlefield. During this process they would have had access to numerous haversacks and knapsacks and could have equipped themselves with the best Uncle Sam had issued to his troops. What may have been a ragged rebel on July 1 may have been a well provisioned and clothed prisoner on July 14th.

I can't agree with the theory that these men are Federal soldiers dressed up as Confederates. There were more than enough CS prisoners around to pose for pictures without Union soldiers playing dressup. In fact, it could be said that there was a shortage of Federal soldiers around Gettysburg after Mead left in pursuit of the retreating Confederates.

Since we are discussing a post battle image, I would strongly recomend reading Greg Coco's "A Strange and Blighted Land, Gettysburg: The Aftermath of a Battle" to achieve a better understanding of what went on around Gettysburg after the battle was over. There is more to the Gettysburg story than just three days of battle.
After reading this book, in Mr. Coco's words, "your vision of Gettysburg will be forever changed".

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

There is also a strong possibility that all the stuff these soldiers have don't belong to them at all. It is common practice for captors to wash and clothe and equip their captives prior to being documented or photographed. We all know that federal gear was common amongst southern ranks, however these fellas seam to have an awful lot of it. As to the straggler/deserter theory, if you are on the run and/or in hiding- you probably wouldn't be carrying that much stuff with you. Just a thought-

Brandon J

[vamick]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

Don't forget that for several weeks, Confederate prisoners helped to bury the dead on the battlefield. During this process they would have had access to numerous haversacks and knapsacks and could have equipped themselves with the best Uncle Sam had issued to his troops. What may have been a ragged rebel on July 1 may have been a well provisioned and clothed prisoner on July 14th.

That is exactly the case according to information I recently learned in conversation with a local historical society in Pearisburg Va a local man there that I met at a grave marker ceremony has identified two of them as his kin ( cousin I think it was and ggfather) anyhow...if you'll notice the small pin like clasp on the collar of the thrid man..this was the giveaway, he also had a post war picture of his ggrand mother with the same pin on ( a sort of id pin with the mans name engraved) as I remember it he even convinced another 'noted local' Dr. James Robertson...the problem with this story is my faded memory but as I remember it they were NC troops ( the third man was from just a few countiues away Grayson co. Va on the NC line he enlisted in NC to serve with his other kinfolk believe their names were Henson??) they were captured and spent the next couple of days identifying the dead from their regiment and then left for Camp Douglas on July 7th er so...anyhow I emailed someone who should be able to fill in the chinks in my memory..more later:D

[Chad Wrinn]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

Just to throw this in there the man in the center stands 5 feet 10 inches. I figured this out by, first knowing that my canteen is 71/2 inches from top to bottom then reducing this by one inch because of the tilt and this leaves it at 61/2 inches. In the picture the canteen is 3/8 of an inch, so knowing this in takes 10 stacked canteens to equal the mans height so 10 times 61/2 equals 62.5 the divided by 12 equals 5.2. But the decimal is based on 10 so you have to set up a proportion and you will get 5 ft. 10 inches. Using this same process the man on the right is 5 feet 5 inches tall. This is supported because the man on the right is shorter than the center man.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Closeups of the three Gettysburg prisoners:

I noticed the swelling of the joints of the hand in the frist man, also the clubness of the fingernails...makes me wonder what time of the year and the diet.