Detailed photos of Lorenz markings

[LibertyHallVols]

I was cleaning my Lorenz this weekend and thought I'd share some detailed pictures of the markings on it, including some of the ones you don't see when its assembled.

For those arms experts out there, please post if you know what some of these mean. Thank you!

Markings under and on top of long range site:


Markings along sides of barrel. Some of these are partially concealed below the woodline of the stock:


Stock Cartouche "FF1860". I believe the "FF" is for Ferdinand Frueth... although I have no confidence that I'm spelling the last name correctly!!


Barrel markings concealed when the barrel is installed:


Top barrel band:

[ScottCross]

Re: Detailed photos of Lorenz markings

That is pretty interesting. Next time I'm at the museum my wife works at, I will have to offer to clean their Lorenz and check for markings.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Detailed photos of Lorenz markings

I found it interesting that my initials are on the bottom of the barrel! ;-)
(see IMG_1867)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Detailed photos of Lorenz markings

Hallo!

In brief and to over generalize...

All of those spurious markings tend to fall into the "system."

Meaning, NUG, different people/artisans/craftspeople at the armory/arsenal worked on different aspects of part manufacture and assembly. To be able to ID the worker later if needed- pieces parts NUG carried some version of letter, letters, numbers, shapes, or sometimes nothing more than small chisel lines like Roman numerals.

Next... as the pieces parts came together, there were "sub inspectors" who gave preliminary inspections of partial assembled work and parts to give them them the okay or go-ahead to go on.

Then, at the end, come the final inspections, proofs, and subsequent stampings certifying that the piece is done.

And last, are the government inspectors who inspect and proof and apply the finally formal factory and/or government acceptances markings.

Pretty much, all of the "small fish' in the process tend to be lost to history. And once in a while there are lists of inspectors and subinspectors such as for Springfield or Harpers Ferry. Once in a Blue Moon there are payroll records of workers and if they used alphabet letters sometimes one can ID the work and era of a particular worker. But I have never (yet) seen anything comparable for European or foreign arms.

Curt

[Cotton Trash]

Re: Detailed photos of Lorenz markings

Mr. Wickett, thanks for posting the pics, That is a nice Lorenz and I'm glad you allowed me to " fondle " it at the picket post. I too will post some pics of my Lorenz for comparison.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Detailed photos of Lorenz markings

You bet, Chad! You're very welcome!

There is a mark on the breech that was difficult to capture, so I didn't include it in the pics, above. It is akin to the "CARL HEISER" mark on this piece from Tim Prince's site.

[Don Dixon]

Re: Detailed photos of Lorenz markings

Mr. Wickett,

Regarding the markings on your Muster 1854, Type II, System Lorenz rifle:

Photo 2: The numbers are long range markings in hundreds of Schritt (i.e., "4" equals 400 Schritt). A Schritt was a military pace 29.5 inches long.

Photo 6: "FF" was one of the marks used by Ferd. Fruwirth, Vienna, Austria; one of the major Austro-Hungarian Army (k.k. Army) firearms contractors.

Photo 10: The "star" appearing marking was a k.k. Army inspection and acceptance stamp. One often sees it on bayonets.

The other barrel markings are from individual workmen, assembly numbers, and proof markings. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find a "crib sheet" in English or German to translate them. One also often finds unit markings, but not in this case.

Regards,
Don Dixon

[Cotton Trash]

Re: Detailed photos of Lorenz markings

Don, Very helpful info on Identifying the markings of Mr. Wickett's Lorenz. Will you also stay tuned for the pics I will be posting in regards to stamps on my model 1854, Type I Lorenz rifle?

[Don Dixon]

Re: Detailed photos of Lorenz markings

Mr. Phillips,

I would be happy to provide whatever comments that I can.

Regards,
Don Dixon