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**Gary of CA** · 10-06-2007, 07:19 PM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

I like that first image of the cadet. The gun appears to be a conversion from a flintlock. I may have access to one such gun (in a collection).

**Johnny Lloyd** · 10-06-2007, 10:01 PM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

Gary-
The image is in The Cadet Museum at The Citadel.
Yes, from the filled-in pan on the lock, it looks like a conversion. I have been trying to make-out the buttons- what kind are they on his frock?
He's carrying a pretty decent CSA or state-issue (?) tin canteen at bottom right of the image. The image does look to me to be mid/late war.
The only thing I can identify that is "regulation" for the period prescribed cadet uniform is the black (presumably) kepi. Frock coats (which he seems to be wearing) were not prescribed uniform that we ever knew for our counterparts back then- and we had to know the school's uniform history, trust me.
According to our professors when I was there... The official uniform was a shell jacket for undress/drill uniform and dress coatee open at the top with black vest, white shirt and cravat for social occasions/studies.
I feel bad for him that he is so young.

Thanks. If you have anything to add, please let me know- Johnny

**27thNCdrummer** · 10-07-2007, 04:57 PM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

The musket looks to be a cone in barrel conversion. Maybe an 1816? I know these were fairly common among NC troops but I'm not sure about SC troops. The frock coat appears to me to be made of broadcloth. Could it be some of the imported cloth?

**Stonewall_Greyfox** · 10-07-2007, 05:26 PM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

Johnny,

Is the blue flag, the guidon/color you were speaking of? What's the date of manufacture on it? Where did it see service (Colombia/Charleston)?

What flag is hanging in the stairwell up to the museum?

Does the Museum own the original image of Cadet J. E. Boinest, in which the blow-up was taken from? The blow-up image seems to lack quality that the original image may still have. I am curious as to how the Institute dated the image to 1864, is there perhaps a letter/journal specifying it as such? What makes you say the Palmetto on his cap is non-reg was there no prescribed insignia for the cap at this time? Is there any surviving brass for the dress cap (shakos) of the period? How would this palmetto badge compare to the more formal insignia?

You mentioned that you felt sorry for the cadet's youthfulness...did something happen to him? Like many images of the war, one possibility for this image may be that this is not his cadet uniform at all...it could be "borrowed" for the occasion.

A note on uniforms: Although many of the Southern military academies/institutions prescribed the coatee as a uniform, during the war it would appear that many of the schools dropped the coatee because of it's expense (lots of material, lots of trim, 44 buttons = lots of work). At my own Alma Matta (VMI), the coatee was not a "dress" uniform but was simply the regular uniform worn to class, town, furlough...etc. The fatigue uniform (consisting of a simple 6-9 button front shell jacket with matching trousers) was used for guard duty, and the summer military encampment...by May of 1861, F.H. Smith (VMI Superintendant) had ordered the abandonment of the coatee altogether (no further coats were to be made~although photographic/notorial evidence suggests that some of the coats still saw use).

http://new.vmi.edu/ARCHIVES/Records/ob861my2.html

One former VMI Cadet J.E. Dodson, went onto attend school at the North Carolina Military Institute (NCMI), where he was a cadet and drill-master. Several images of Dodson exist as a VMI cadet (one of the few images of a VMI cadet with overcoat), but also during his time at the North Carolina Military Institute (which show him in both a jacket and also a frock coat). Unfortunately, even less information exists about the school in Hillsborough (NCMI) than either VMI/Citadel today.

Another wartime image of a VMI cadet exist of Cadet S.H. Letcher, in the image Letcher is wearing a grey double-breasted frock coat; a uniform never in the cadet regulations...it is possible that in this image the coat was borrowed...or worn while away from the Institute...we really have no basis for why he is wearing it.

I know I've deviated from the SCMA a little, but my intent was to perhaps raise a few more questions...Have the order/record books from the school survived? Perhaps there is documentation in the books to show a transfer from the coatee to a different style uniform (jacket/frock much like other military schools).

**Johnny Lloyd** · 10-07-2007, 06:00 PM

SCMA: The Citadel

Hell0-

The flag pictured is the one known to be the institute's actual formal battle color- looks prewar from the date at the bottom right (1857?- the date of presentation?). The South Carolina Military Academy, then unofficially known as "The Citadel", was officially founded in 1842. For all we know, it could have been all over the State- when I was at the museum, I don't remember seeing where the color saw action. It is used pretty heavily, though.

The red palmetto flag from the article about the Star of the West firing did not survive the war to anyone's knowledge and was probably an 'ad hoc' kind of flag the cadet battery was flying at ther camp on Morris Island the morning they fired the first shot of the war.

The black kepi with SC Militia buttons was the official headgear of the school. No hat brass was known to be used on the front during the war or prewar.

The pictures below are from the museum as well. They are reconstructions of the battle dress uniform/drill uniform and coatee uniform there. The uniform of the time probably looked much like what is pictured.

I have never seen a shako brass from prewar- don't know if any survive from there. The parade review uniform was to wear a shako with the dress coatee uniform with the uniform coatee fully buttoned-up -no cover w/vest for social occasions as military standards.

The school in Charleston was badly damaged during the war and the Arsenal (freshmen cadets attended here before transferring down to Charleston during their second year) was destroyed by Sherman's troops when he burned Columbia. Little of the prewar school's material artifacts survived the war. There was a fire in the museum as well- as to the date of it happening, I don't remember.

The flag in the museum stairwell ... please clarify... Confederate 2nd national or Citadel color? The 2nd national one was the one that flew on top of the Citadel when federal forces captured it.

So not to confuse... One of these days, I'll contact Mrs. Jane Yates- the museum curator for more specifics/clarifications, if there are any more to be known... when I do, you will be the first known. ;)

Thanks -Johnny

**VA-Patriot'61** · 10-07-2007, 07:04 PM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

The school in Charleston was badly damaged during the war and the Arsenal (freshmen cadets attended here before transferring down to Charleston during their second year) was destroyed by Sherman's troops when he burned Columbia. Little of the prewar school's material artifacts survived the war.

I was under the impression that the "The South Carolina Military Academy" also included "The Arsenal" in Columbia, not just The Citadel in Charleston. One of the books I used for research in my VMI History course I took my 1st class year I found very interesting. If you would like to read it the book is entitled "Long Gray lines: The Southern Military School Tradition, 1839-1915" by Rod Andrew Jr. It's an excellent read and does a good job providing the basic background for the establishment of the various military schools across the south.

Also of note was that fact that Sherman offered his services to Supt. Francis H. Smith before the war to teach at the VMI, Smith turned him down as they were fully staffed at the time. I often think of how things may have turned out differently during the war had he taught there.

I remember hearing about the fire at the old museum when I stopped by there a few years ago during spring break. It was sad to hear since so much history was lost, the same happened when Gen. Hunter burned VMI but fortunately much was saved when the Corps retreated to Lynchburg and then reestablished itself in Richmond for the remainder of the war.

I'd be interested to hear more about the uniforms the cadets at "El Cid" wore during the war. As Paul said the VMI cadets wore their "fatigue uniforms" after May of '61 except for the few knuckleheads who kept their coatees and became drillmasters in Richmond and Harpers Ferry.

**Johnny Lloyd** · 10-07-2007, 07:34 PM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

VA Patriot...

You are correct- the Arsenal was the "boot camp" for cadets' freshman year and if they hacked it there, then the moved on to Charleston for the rest of their three years. Did I make that clear above

... if not my bad. :D

The Arsenal no longer exists since it was burned by Sherman, but the South Carolina Governor's Mansion was the Officer's Quarters of the old Arsenal and it is the only building of it to have survived today.

For clarification, the kepi in the photo with the red flag was a prewar faculty kepi- it could have had a "SCMA" pin or lettering in the wheat on its front. No wartime black cadet kepis survive today that I know of.

In pics in the museum before the fashion of the kepi, the cadets used some sort of a wheel hat with a pinwheel design on top- similar to US Army Mex War covers.

Yes, the fire at the museum was devistating to the school's history, but Sherman and the bombardment of Charleston were arguably worse... :(

-Johnny

**PalmettoGuard** · 10-07-2007, 08:21 PM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

Originally posted by Johnny Lloyd View Post

VA Patriot...

The Arsenal no longer exists since it was burned by Sherman, but the South Carolina Governor's Mansion was the Officer's Quarters of the old Arsenal and it is the only building of it to have survived today.

You are correct. Not all of The Arsenal was burned. I think just the main academic building and quarters for the cadet. The Officer's quarters and many outbuildings survived and were occupied after Sherman left Columbia. The current mansion for the modern SC Governor is was the Officer Quarters of the Old Arsenal.

**Johnny Lloyd** · 10-08-2007, 06:15 AM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

Hi-
Not being an arse... just for official history and clarification-

"Destroyed" meaning all the buildings aren't there any longer- save for one. The governor's mansion (officer's quarters back then) was the only thing left on Arsenal Hill there and even it was damaged. From the governor's mansion website the official history states:

Atop Arsenal Hill amidst grand homes owned by prestigious South Carolinians stood a large edifice - a forlorn remembrance of war and its aftermath. The building was the only remains of Arsenal Military Academy established in 1842 to train officers for the state's militia. Cadets withdrew from the Academy on February 16, 1865, to fulfill their duties as soldiers in the Civil War. When they returned to Columbia there was no school. Only the officers' quarters loomed in the distance as they made their trek into the smoldering city.

Such a tragedy... I wonder if there exists a map somewhere in Columbia of the original layout of the grounds there???

For clarification for the above- Johnny :o

**PalmettoGuard** · 10-08-2007, 08:53 PM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

Well...from the official history of The South Carolina Military Academy 1783 - 1892,

From the final report of the Board of Visitors, Dec. 7th, 1865

"....The Buildings connected to The Arsenal have been consumed by the torch of the Federal forces, except the officers quarters, detached from the main building and several out buildings." These quarters and one of these out-buildings have been possessed and occupied, to the present time, by persons who have no connection with the Academy, to the exclusion of some of the officers of the Academy who desired and were entitled to the possession."

Later it is noted in the book

"The loose brick and stone that marked the ruins of The Arsenal, and the out-buildings that escaped the fire, were, during the year of 1866, sold for the benefit of the State by Major Theodore Stark, Agent, who had been placed by the Provisional Governor in charge of the Arsenal grounds, and in the occupancy of the detached edifice, formerly used as officers' quarters."

**Johnny Lloyd** · 10-08-2007, 09:37 PM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

Brian-
So, the officers' quarters were damaged ("posessed and occupied"-euphamisms for such squatters/refugees... we may never know), but not burned to the ground like the rest of the school main building was- that's why they restored it so easily after the war. Probably the only place decent for the governor to live after the city was in ruins...:(
I had heard the school stone was sold for scrap quite awhile back - you confirmed this for me.

Does your book have a map or layout of the old Arsenal? Possibly in relation to where it is in present-day Columbia, SC? I'm curious at to what it might have looked like layout-wise.

Thanks- Johnny :o

**PalmettoGuard** · 10-09-2007, 08:02 AM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

I have never seen a layout of The Arsenal but never have sought one. The Arsenal was simply on Arsenal Hill here in Columbia. This is IVO Finley Park and the large post office off of Assembly St.

**Johnny Lloyd** · 10-09-2007, 08:40 AM

Re: SCMA: The Citadel

Brian-

I have written the caretaker of the house and will see if any more info can be provided on specifics on the grounds. She now says she is sending me information for research.

You know, when I was at El Cid in the mid-1990s (seems so long ago) there was talk of reviving the Arsenal as an all-male alternative to women coming to Citadel. Never happened, obviously...

Oh, so others have access to research material on here... attached is a History of The Citadel by the Citadel Alumni Association Historical Committee. Stonewall... it answers questions you had about the school colors earlier on this thread. Enjoy!

Yours- Johnny Lloyd
South Carolina ex-pat... :)

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