English Mess Tin Cover

[CJDaley]

Brian Koenig mentioned in another thread that the Gettysburg National Military Park has an English mess tin cover in it's collection.

Below are images of that artifact. I'm not totally convinced this is Civil War era, but it certainly is a mess tin cover, I just can't say exactly which time period or the origin.

If we've got any experts in the peanut gallery, please chime in and tell us what you think of these images.

[wade03]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

Nice, the buttons are different. And doesn't the main flap normally wrap around the tin? The one I saw had a longer flap.

[ohpkirk]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

The one I have notes on which is owned by Lon Webster is without evidence of ever having the leather closure tabs or buttons on it. I looked for stitch holes in the enamelled cloth but found nothing. It appears to have been issued sans the normal/typical means of closure.

The flaps on it are also 'blunter' than the cover that Chris posted. Meaning the taper is not as sharp.

[CJDaley]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

The one I have notes on which is owned by Lon Webster is without evidence of ever having the leather closure tabs or buttons on it. I looked for stitch holes in the enamelled cloth but found nothing. It appears to have been issued sans the normal/typical means of closure.

The flaps on it are also 'blunter' than the cover that Chris posted. Meaning the taper is not as sharp.

Yeah, Tim Welch and I looked at this years ago and while I didn't think the leather tabs were a modification, they did seem out of place. I think we both agreed this was a post CW item, but like I said, this isn't my area so I'm all ears.

[Bagman]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

I've seen these in several Military Museums in the UK and Canada. They are usually displayed with uniform and equipment displays from the Crimean War (1853-1856). The mess kit carrier attached at the rear of the pack. There are numerous illustrations, in art and photographs, of these being worn by British soldiers as they prepared for deployment to the Crimea and also in use in the field.

Jeff Christman
Liberty Hall Fifes & Drums
Stonewall Brigade

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

Hi All,

The pictures of the interior of the cover are interesting. There looks to be hand serging done on the raw edge fo the seams.

This cover is definatly different from the one I have notes on in the British War Museum I'd to a soldier who served in the Crimea

All the best

DOn S

[Bagman]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

I still think this is British Crimean War Era. Surplus British equipment imported by a broker for sale to the government and / or individual regiments? It certainly was done...by both sides in the Civil War

Unless the markings are authenticated as museum collection accession marks, and they don't look right for tha purpose, the number 949 is quite possibly the individual British soldier's ID number. The "3 CAM" would refer to 3d Battalion 26th Foot (The Cameronians)....also known as "The Scottish Rifles". These markings are consistent with marks on Victorian Era British equipment in my small collection. Shame it can't talk....

Jeff Christman
Liberty Hall Fifes & Drums
Stonewall Brigade

[1stMaine]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

Comrades,

I would posit this mess tin cover to be post CW, infact, post-1881.

The 26th foot was merged with the 90th foot in 1881 and became the Cameronians. Prior to that, it is likely that the markings would have been 3/26, or 3rd Battalion, 26th foot, etc. After the merger, 3rd Cam would seem to be an appropriate marking. I agree that the number is almost certainly the number of the soldier, and I suspect that an email or telephone call to the regimental museum would result in an identification of the owner.

respects,

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

Hi,

Mr. Daley, thanks for the images of the mess cover. I have never seen a English mess tin cover in original pictures. Where they commonly used by the South?

[erik]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

Nice images of a cover. i have seen several of these over the years, not more than 5. They all have a similar aspect until the turn of the century when they went to cotton drill.
I have even seen, measured and photographed one made of light leather, which I recreated, as it was easier at the time than correct period formula oiled canvas.
This cover has served me for at least 25 years with no problems.
There is an excellent article published in October 1991 in the Military Illustrated Past and Present, depicting the knapsacp and mess tin including cover of a Grenadier Guardsman who had served in the Crimea and after. Since these items were necessaries and paid for by the men they took them with them on release, they did not have back packs or suitcases.
An interesting point; I have made canvas and leather messtin covers several times, some good, some bad, but they have never failed to fit a mess tin when the original pattern was followed regardless when the messtin was made.
If you are interested in the article I will see what I can do to send the information to you. Please email or PM.

Erik Simundson.

[Brent Brumagin]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

I would say it is post war. Not like any I have seen.

Brent Brumagin

[erik]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

Mr. Daley,
No request for the article on the Crimean Vets necessaries as yet.
The attribution to the Cameronions is, I believe, in error. I would posit the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders as the Regiment. This Regiment was well established by the 1860's. The 3 refers to the 3rd or depot Bn.
Reference might be made to the book Tangled Web which describes Canadian/British equipment of the Civil War era. Tim Sheads of S&S Sutlers has a copy.
The tabs and buttons are typical of those that I have seen in text or fact. As for the sewing, I am not a tailor.
This item is perhaps timless in this era only succumbing to sewing technology.
As for its contents they are refered to as a canteen as referenced to "Equipment for the Army, Engineers 1866".
This would be a desirable aquisition for British import accoutrements recreations and serviceable.

Erik Simundson

[OldKingCrow]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

I dont have them in front of me but from memory Ben Tart puts a close approximation of those buttons (his are jappaned) on his RD blue kersey trousers.

[Sewing Vixen]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

How were they fastened to the packs? These tins have always made me wonder.

[erik]

Re: English Mess Tin Cover

In the English service the messtin in its cover was attached to the 1856 knapsack bt two D rings mounted on the top of the knapsack (more detail can follow). It was secured by a strap with the end rollainsdt ed through the keeper. The messtin would be set vertically when carrying rations and with the flat face down when empty.
The British army after the Crimea folded their Greatcoat or blankets flat against the knapsack not rolled on top. During the Maori wars in New Zealand and subsequent wars when light order was used the mess tin was often strapped around the blanket roll with the flat face on the blanket roll.
The knapsack straps were often dismounted and used to carry the blanket or greatcoat folded,. The messtin in its case would then be carried as per the knapsack by strapping sideways on the blanket carrying straps.
When I use my mess tin on my Union soft double bag knapsack, I thread the strap through the loop on the knapsack and secure it to my overcoat or rolled blanket with the face to the front and the curve to the rear. The First Sergeant has to be alert or get a slap in the face. It serves very well and does not shift.
It is easioer to carry than the French messtin.

Erik Simundson