Haversacks on Parade

[mtvernon]

*Disclaimer* - I did use the search function before this was posted.

I am the new chairman of our local SVR Unit's Military Affairs Committee, and in an effort to improve our impression as a group, I plan on breaking a few hearts by compelling our members to leave their haversacks at home in the future when we are called upon for local parades. I see many claims that haversacks were generally not proper to parade dress, but can find no regs. on the issue.

As I know that there will be objections, or at least doubts as to my claim, I wish to present some textual support for this custom in order to remove future challenges to this rule.

Thank you for your help.

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

We never use haversacks on parade because they aren't part of our dress uniform. If the weather is hot we will encourage members to bring a canteen to avoid any heat related issues.

They don't bring their packs do they. You're not on campaign you're on parade.

Seems pretty logical to me.

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

We never use haversacks on parade because they aren't part of our dress uniform.

They don't bring their packs do they.

It depends on what kind of "parade" it is we're talking about here.

If it is just dress parade that is our concern, then the answer is, "No," regarding the use of haversacks.

There are instances, however, where full accoutrements (packs and haversacks included) are expected, i.e. grand reviews, etc.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

It certainly depends on the type parade you are talking about.

In September 1861 Carleton issued the following to the California Column.

Hereafter at the Sunday and Wednesday inspections the troops will have their knapsacks (greatcoats and blankets rolled) haversacks and canteens on, the knapsack carefully packed. Every article of clothing must be carefully marked according to regulations. I shall come over to inspect the regiment next wednesday. When I shall desire to see these instructions fulfilled to the letter.

Then again he also made them regularly drill with knapsacks, learn to make soft bread in the field, and ordered that the tents be struck and folded neatly on a daily basis (then be put back up again) in preparation for his summer march across Arizona and New Mexico into Texas.

I assume you are talking about civic parades and such rather than military parades. It all depends on what you are doing exactly. Heck, at last years Armed forces day parade we simply stood a top a flat bed trailer complete with mountain howitzer and dog tent as we rolled through town. I think some of us were wearing haversacks while we gave the princess wave to the crowd... ;-)

[Micah Trent]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

Read this link below:

http://suvcw.org/svr/forms/svr-reg.pdf

I think you will find your answer in Article VII.

Cheers,
Micah L. Trent
SVR Co. A 1st Regiment Capital Guards

[FlatLandFed]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

Good discussion.

Micah,

Article VII, Page 7 is pretty vague -- we're to pattern our uniform and equipment after what the government prescribed for soldiers of 1861-1865 -- so I guess we're back to the question of circumstances.

Formal dress uniform will usually mean no haversack. Parade in which we represent soldiers in the Grand Review and so forth would mean wear packs and all.

Interesting comment on the National colors from another poster, in that little gaggles of a dozen or so men wouldn't have been marching alone with the American flag, why would we now? I guess I've grown accustomed to putting as many Stars and Stripes on view as possible on Memorial Day, Veterans Day Parade, 4th of July, &c and didn't think about skipping that, if we're not the official color bearers for the whole parade.

I think we still would carry Camp and Dept flags (and regs call for State flags if you have access) even without the U.S. flag, to identify ourselves?

I'll have to bring that up with our SVR unit. Officers of the 4th Military District should have an opinion, I'm sure ...

We are re-dedicating a local Civil War sentry statue this Memorial Day (citizens refurbished it in recognition of its 100th birthday). Tradition early in the 20th century was to have school children join in the procession from the G.A.R. Hall to the soldiers' circle in the cemetery, with each child carrying a small U.S. flag -- we plan to resurrect this, at least for this parade.

Haversacks? Guess I'll vote with the "leave 'em" crowd for most of the future parades.

Now, we'll have to open the debate on when white gloves should be worn and whether living historians should wear a waist belt when they're not under arms ;^)

Ever forward,
Paul

[mountainman]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

In a modern parade we try to all be uniform as a group, if more than one unit is marching it needs to be told before the event. All alike or none at all is my opionion. At least that is the way we try to do it.

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

I don't think the original question was for a CW style military parade but for a modern civilian/municipality parade. That's why I answered the way I did.

We do carry the colors. If it is less than 10 guys we only carry the national colors not the state colors. If we have 10 or more we carry both.

Again a civilian/municipal parade is not quite the same as a CW event. You usually don't get to interact with the spectators so it isn't a living history opportunity. Basically you are formed up away from most of the spectators and then huslted off stage after you pass the reviewing stand.

So in many ways it is more about "show" than history. That's one reason why we carry the National Colors first and foremost. The Regimental Flag (a duplicate of the original in the NYS Military Musuem) is SO different form the current state flag that if we carried it alone people would wonder what flag we are carrying.

[Micah Trent]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

Good discussion.

Micah,

Article VII, Page 7 is pretty vague -- we're to pattern our uniform and equipment after what the government prescribed for soldiers of 1861-1865 -- so I guess we're back to the question of circumstances.

Paul,

You are right. That was a combination of working and trying to research at the same time. Sorry about that. However, it was a bit of good information.

[mtvernon]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

Thanks to all for posting. As mentioned, and although I'm grateful for the attempt, stating that the SVR ought to be "patterned from that of the U.S. Armed Forces uniforms of 1861 – 1865" doesn't narrow it down too much for reasons already given, i.e., what kind of parade, etc. Let me state what kind of parade I'm talking about.

Most of these guys do not reenact for reasons that remain elusive to me. We participate in the local Veterans Day and Independence Day parades, and we'll have guys ranging from hardcore campaign impressions with bedroll replete to very heavy guys to those who only wear the waistbelt. In one case, our oldest member even comes in jeans. Don't even ask about eyewear.

Thus, the parades are all civic, and I'm dealing with a group with a very tenuous grasp on the meaning of 'uniform'. Actual question: "Is this a good hat?" Said 'hat' was proudly labeled 'Size XL-Made in Pakistan'.

I'm just trying to work with what I've got and tighten it up. Given some of the answers here, perhaps I first have to answer the question as to what we, as a group, are trying to accomplish through donning uniforms. Are we to be formal, or portraying campaigners? Or, as some have done, are we all trying to mimic the uniforms of our actual grandfathers?

I'm glad I asked the question as this has opened the discussion in my mind a bit, but I would still like to see, in regulations of the time period, any guidance with regards to the use of haversacks and canteens (forgot about the canteen part) when in a civic parade scenario.

Respectfully,

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

I could have sworn that I gave a full reply on this thread, and then I realized that my full reply was when this same question was posted on another forum.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Haversacks on Parade

"...guys ranging from hardcore campaign impressions with bedroll replete to very heavy guys to those who only wear the waistbelt. "

It's the "only wear the waistbelt" part that makes us hope for the sake of the onlookers that they have XL belt plates.