m1839 forage cap dimensions

[nick19thind]

My first project (sword belt) was a great success. Now i'm thinking of making something for an early war CS impression based on this pattern.

http://theyoungcampaigner.typepad.com/the_young_campaigner/2007/10/make-your-own-m.html

Anyone know the diameter of the crown, the height of the brim and the dimensions of the peak?
Thanks

[yeoman]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

Sir, just checked your project and site and can say good for you, sorry can,t help with dimensions but might try this myself so will be looking out. Thanks.

[nick19thind]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

Thanks.:) It's not my site though.

[nick19thind]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

If anyone owns one of these hats could you measure the height of the brim and diameter of the crown? I have been looking everywhere for the right dimensions but can't find them (only approximate like "between 9 and 13 inches")

[YoungCampaigner]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

Hi Nick,

I'm afraid I don't know the dimensions of the m1839 forage cap, but I generally make my civilian style caps about 9 1/2" across the top and 3 1/2" for the vertical section. That is sort of what I wrote the instructions for, but with a few modifications you could probably use them to make the forage cap you are talking about. I would suggest looking at originals in photographs (or an actual original if you can get your hands on one) and approximating how big it is.

[BrownBlanketMess]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

Nick,

Based on originals in the Smithsonian Institute and John Langellier and Paul Loane's research:

The 1839 forage cap had three distinct "types" produced. The "type 1" had the distinctive feature of a sharply pointed visor, which measured 2 1/2 inches at its widest. The padded crown had a 10 1/2 inch diameter. A 4 inch wide cape would be let down in the back, but when not in use was folded and kept in place by the black silk ribbons that were tied in the front. Two vest-size buttons held the patent leather chinstrap to the band. The so-called "type 2" differed slitly in that the visor was more rounded and not applied in as steep an angle. Further the crown was not padded. Yet a third type was similiar but had no chinstrap. The flap was held in place by black ties and a metal hook on each side toward the front of the crown that was inserted into a sewn thread eye.

For further research on the M1839 see Langellier, John P. and Loane, Paul C. U.S. Army Headgear 1812-1872 Atglen, PA: Schiffler Military History, 2002, 26-33.


Steve LaBarre
Corn Fed Comrades

[FTrooper]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

actually, I DO have these! A friend who wrote an article for the Company of Military Historians on the M1839 forage cap gave me a copy of all his notes! They are SUPER detailed. He handled MANY originals. BUZZ me at FTroopCompany@yahoo.com and I will dig them out. If I get a chance this weekend I will dig them out and post them!

Chris Fischer
F-Troop

[Sut Lovingood]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

Chris Fischer,
Please contact me as I would like the information from the surveys of originals.

[robert-m]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

When you cut the fabric for the diameter of it, cut it around the 11 or 11.5 mark and it'll most likely turn out to the right length . I make my painted mechanics hat at about the same height and diameter as the 39 forage cap.

[Silas]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

The goofy hat in my avatar is four nails in diameter plus a half inch seam. Height is approximately two nails. The section which connects the rounded top to the two tone section around my head is conical. That took some engineering. Consult the Workwoman's Guide (1840) for basics on wheel caps.

The more I studied caps of this type, the more I realized there is not a standard hat shape by the early 1860's. Tall, short, wide, floppy, trim. They all work. The slickest version to me is that used by naval officers : neither too tall nor too wide and with a flat brim instead of one which slopes.

[PenPusher]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

There is a good little booklet at http://si-pddr.si.edu/dspace/bitstre...91969_unit.pdf which has pictures of all three patterns of the cap.

If you work from the known size of the 5/8 inch buttons you should be able to work out the dimensions for all the other parts

[kaniggit]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

There is a good little booklet at http://si-pddr.si.edu/dspace/bitstre...91969_unit.pdf which has pictures of all three patterns of the cap.

If you work from the known size of the 5/8 inch buttons you should be able to work out the dimensions for all the other parts

That's a great link. Thanks.

[Sut Lovingood]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

Thank you Alan. The book is indeed a great resource, nice to see it online.
I also looked at Sidney Brinkerhoff's Military Headgear book as well as John Langelier's Dragoon book and Army Blue vol. 1. I was lucky enough to have a visit by both men last week and of course asked for their notes...but since the works were done a while back, the notes may take a bit to find.
My major hitch is in the construction. Any information, tips, etc. from those who have constructed Army issue caps would be very helpful.
If I remember, I will take pics and post one in our state's collection which was (I assume) a private purchase officer's. Constructed of fur pelt, with a quilted lining, and a gold bullion star on front. I have not seen one like it before.

[Conley]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

Chris Fischer,
Please contact me as I would like the information from the surveys of originals. I all so would like to see the information. Thank You, Conley Sluss

[Spongebucket]

Re: m1839 forage cap dimensions

Something to keep in mind. The famous "Type 1 and 2s" known to be worn in Mexico, were replaced by a latter Type 3 (wow, how did that work.....and these are just collector/historian numbers). This latter pattern is the one the Army was issued during the 3rd Seminole War and maybe leftovers for the Utah Expeditions. I would suggest, that if you are making one that is military surplus or " I wore it in previous service"(which means you need to be the proper age). The last pattern is best. But keep in mind that you were issued more than one cap per year of your enlistment and nearly 3 years had passed by the time the ACW occured.
Now if you're just wanting the info to make a civilian cap...there is such a variety of dimensions.
My 2 pennies
Joe Blunt