canteens

[Jimmayo]

Re: canteens

The Cold Harbor picture is the earliest I have seen pictures of the split strap. However, that doesn't mean they were not around prior to then, say in late 63 but that is just a WAG.

It is interesting to note that the canteen in the pic is a bullseye. The picture attached is a closeup of the Alsop farm picture.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: canteens

Thanks Paul and Jim! Exactly what I was looking for! It seems to me that a good flat side drum will be my next purchase! Probably will go with the woven cotton sling but might look at split slings as well.

Luke,

If your'e opting for a tin drum, then I would stay away from a split sling. Out of the 1/2 dozen images I've seen, & the originals I've seen in museums/shows/books these "split-leather" slings only appear on presumably Federal M1858 canteens (smoothside/bullseye). Instead I would strongly recommend a webbed canteen sling...or some variation of folded fabric (linen, ticking, cotton), which also has limitless options for closure; button, small harness buckle, suspender "braces" buckle, stitched...etc.

Paul B.

[lukegilly13]

Re: canteens

I've done the wooden canteen....soaking them in water will keep them from leaking...what happens to me is that I continually keep water in it at an event....then the water gets warm....I change it...it seems that I go through more water in an event (most of it being poured out) than I did when I first started reenacting and i had a confederate tin drum that I paid 15 bucks for and it leaked out of the box. You are right about the Gettysburg pic and thanks for reminding me of that!

Does anyone know if rolled tin or pewter spouts have a year association (i.e. is one of them more common early war or late war)?

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: canteens

I've done the wooden canteen....soaking them in water will keep them from leaking...what happens to me is that I continually keep water in it at an event....then the water gets warm....I change it...it seems that I go through more water in an event (most of it being poured out)

What's wrong with drinking warm water? I remember from my Nutrition classes in school that warm (not hot, but about room temperature) water is better for your body than the frigid water, that we tend to prefer. This has to do with the shock induced to your body by the temperature of the water, and the ability for your body to use the water without having to "heat-it-up" first. If your'e constantly pouring H2O out at events (and not into you mouth, stew pot, or muzzle of your gun), then your probably not attending very rigorous events.

than I did when I first started reenacting and i had a confederate tin drum that I paid 15 bucks for and it leaked out of the box. You are right about the Gettysburg pic and thanks for reminding me of that!

If I bought a brand-new canteen that leaked out of the box, you can bet I would take the issue up with the vendor who sold it to me.

Does anyone know if rolled tin or pewter spouts have a year association (i.e. is one of them more common early war or late war)?

If your'e talking Confederate canteens...I don't know that there is any information to support a set time period (other than 1859-1865) for specific spout construction/materials. Since these were mainly made throughout the war by small shops or contract shops, I don't believe there's the paper trail that you see with the Federal Canteens (St. Louis...Philadelphia...etc.). A rolled tin spout can be documented throughout the entire war as seen in original images and surviving relics today...with regards to the pewter/lead spout, someone else will have to comment on what they've seen.

Paul B.

[lukegilly13]

Re: canteens

warm water is better for your body and is obsorbed much faster than cold. It's not much for taste though. I guess I figure that I got what I paid for...besides, I drank out of the wooden canteen mostly and my plan for the cheap farb tin drum was the break it in half and use it as a mess kit (skillet/plate combo). It serves this purpose well still.

[Bill]

Re: canteens

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For mass versatility a tin drum of any documented configuration will serve you well...otherwise getting a good wooden "Gardner" pattern canteen will serve you equally as well, as these can be documented throughout the war, but are believed to be somewhat less prevalent than their tin-drum counterparts.

Paul B.

Paul,

My limited research suggests that wooden canteens didn't begin showing up in large numbers until 1862 in the AOT and 1863 in the ANV.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: canteens

Paul,

My limited research suggests that wooden canteens didn't begin showing up in large numbers until 1862 in the AOT and 1863 in the ANV.

Bill,

It's a good thing in the message you quoted of mine, that I didn't set any hard-fast rule, about when Wooden Canteens came in use. It is indisputable though, that the wood drum canteens did see use Early-on in the war...possibly even as early as 1861.

For mass versatility a tin drum of any documented configuration will serve you well...otherwise getting a good wooden "Gardner" pattern canteen will serve you equally as well, as these can be documented throughout the war, but are believed to be somewhat less prevalent than their tin-drum counterparts.

Note: In my message, which you quoted, I even suggest that canteens of the tin drum configuration, were probably more prevalent throughout the war than their wood counterparts.

With the number of Federal Canteens seen in CS Ranks, the somewhat less sizeable amount of tin drums...I think you could afford to see even a full battalion of CS "Gardner" wood drum canteens in ranks, and this would still fall short of reflecting their use during any era of the war. Of course, try finding a full battalion strength of men willing to pay $100+ for a wood canteen.

Paul B.

[Renvilleranger21]

Re: canteens

The US Army issued wooden drum style canteens from the War of 1812 until just before the Mexican War. I haven't done any research on their use during the ACW, but they were around in GREAT numbers.

Just my .02

Andy Timmer

[Bill]

Re: canteens

Bill,

It's a good thing in the message you quoted of mine, that I didn't set any hard-fast rule, about when Wooden Canteens came in use. It is indisputable though, that the wood drum canteens did see use Early-on in the war...possibly even as early as 1861.

Note: In my message, which you quoted, I even suggest that canteens of the tin drum configuration, were probably more prevalent throughout the war than their wood counterparts.

Paul B.

Paul,

I'm certainly not suggesting that no Confederate soldiers carried wood canteens prior to 1862. Wood canteens were common in the civilian world, as well as some unknown number of surplus Government canteens may well have been floating around. But, that's much different than mass issues, of what we call Gardner Pattern, canteens.

One of the best ways to track the issue of Gardner Pattern canteens is to watch when the Yankees started sending them home as souvenirs. I forget exactly when they started showing up out west, but it was in 1862. In the east, lots of them start showing up after Chancellorsville. Admittedly much of this is guesswork; since, as was mentioned in another post, lots of issue records just say "canteens".

I quoted your entire passage because I agree with you that tin drum canteens were likely more prevalent than the "Gardner" canteens and more important, were used throughout the War.

[Slouch]

Re: canteens

Paul,

My limited research suggests that wooden canteens didn't begin showing up in large numbers until 1862 in the AOT and 1863 in the ANV.

I agree that they become more common mid war. However, in Longstreet's memoirs there is a sketch drawn at Sharpsburg in 1862 of a wooden canteen laying on the ground. I can not verify if Longstreet's memory of this sketch having been from Sharpsburg is accurate.

[lukegilly13]

Re: canteens

I decided to go with a confederate tin drum. Several people offered it with a rolled tin spout and pewter spout, convex and/or flat sides, beeswax lined, unlined, hot dipped, one spout, two spouts, the list goes on and on. I chose a slightly convex sided with a rolled tin spout....I didn't want the beeswax so I went with hot dipped from Orchard Hill. Ordered it Monday evening, got it this morning in the mail! What great service! thank you all for your help!!!!

[ferraius]

Re: canteens

I got one of the Nuckoll's wood canteens from Orchard Hill Sutlery a few years back and it still holds water without leaking and doesn't taste like metallic Tang! I took it to the big march in Louisiana and not one problem except that I couldn't seem to fill it as much as wanted to. I have had many ask me where I got it but you can't seem to find them around these days. If someone started making more good wood canteens it seems that they should sell. Hell I'd buy another just to make sure I always had one.


Jon O'Harra
Heartless Bastards Mess

[D Harrelson]

Re: canteens

A woodworker from my neck of Virginia and I are plotting a small run of Nuckolls pattern canteens along with a few other scarce wooden items in the next few months. They will most likely run in the $85-$100 range. I just got the diagram and schematics from the MOC last week. Problem is, I showed him the picture of one in CS Echoes of Glory and he was by far taken with the two Gardner pattern canteens on the same page. Had your druthers, what would you rather get at around the same price-- a Nuckolls or a Gardner?

Don Harrelson
Rusty Spoon Mess

[Jon The Beloved]

Re: canteens

Friends,

Sorry to take us off topic but this threads been buried for awhile. Can anyone advise me, a fresh recruit, about aquiring my first canteen? I will need a Federal canteen, I have been told, so that I may get the most use out of it. Where may I find an affordable Federal Canteen that is fairly authetic, makes a good general impression and costs around $50 dollars.. I do not expect there to be any firsthand by approved or nearly approved sutlers SO I suppose I will just have to keep my eyes peeled at those who are looking to sell here on the AC. I'd appreciate any input. I do have good people around me to show me the ropes of the hobby. I am blessed.

Thanks in advance!

- Jon Harris
"Dippin' Gourd Mess"

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: canteens

Friends,

Sorry to take us off topic but this threads been buried for awhile. Can anyone advise me, a fresh recruit, about aquiring my first canteen? I will need a Federal canteen, I have been told, so that I may get the most use out of it. Where may I find an affordable Federal Canteen that is fairly authetic, makes a good general impression and costs around $50 dollars.. I do not expect there to be any firsthand by approved or nearly approved sutlers SO I suppose I will just have to keep my eyes peeled at those who are looking to sell here on the AC. I'd appreciate any input. I do have good people around me to show me the ropes of the hobby. I am blessed.

Thanks in advance!

- Jon Harris
"Dippin' Gourd Mess"

Jon,

First...it will help if we know what impression/impressions you plan to be doing.

If your'e planning to do both Federal and Confederate, then yes, a M1858 Federal "Smoothside" canteen may be your best option...if however, you plan to stick with Confederate impressions...then you will find that either a simple tin-drum canteen...or a Wooden "Gardner" variation may serve you well.

There are quite a few sources out there for these...and it would help to define what you plan to be doing...my personal opinion is that we see far too many Johnies wearing Federal gear, and it sure would be nice to see a little more domestic "southern" gear in the field for these impressions.

Off the top of my head:

Orchard Hill Sutler: http://members.tripod.com/dahoude/index.htm
S&S Sutler of Gettysburg: http://www.ss-sutler.com/

I am sure others will follow along shortly to provide more options for canteen sources.


Paul B.