Breast plate installation?

[Dutchman Dick]

How do you correctly locate and install the round eagle breast plate on a M1855/1861 cartridge box sling? Jarnagin's website shows how to install the oval plate on the box flap, but they seem to have forgotten the breastplate...

[roundshot]

Re: Breast plate installation?

Now, Dick. I believe you can figure this out using the same principles as on the Jarnagin site. Just center the holes on the cross belt at your breast and have at it. No disrespect intended. "Use the Force, Luke."

[lukegilly13]

Re: Breast plate installation?

By design, it appears (after looking at several images) that when the cartridge box is being worn in the marching position (pushed back on the hip) it is in the center of the chest. When you move the cartridge box up to the firing position, it puts the breastplate off center (basically over the heart). Now, I do not know if this is military proceedure. I do know that in pictures, usually when you see the plates in the middle of the chest the box is back on their hip. If the box is rotated forward, the breastplate tends to be off center. Hope this helps. Go the library of congress and look at pictures of Federal soldiers wearing all their gear.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Breast plate installation?

Hallo!

I thought we had that previously archived, but I am not finding it, and it may have died in former Crash...

While the plates were typically attached before issuance in the field, one will find variation in the location based upon questimated positioning, build of the man, and whether he has the box on his hip or pulled back for "ease of marching," etc.

The Ordnance Manual is silent when it comes to secuirng the breast plates.

One method:

1. Put on the cartridge box.
2. With the eagle head UP, visually center and place the plate on one's button line.
3. Center the two wire loops on the center line of the shoulder belt, and press hard enough to make a mark.
4. Using an X-acto knife or better yet a sharpened screwdriver, cut/punch the slots for the wire loops to pass through.
5. Push the plate onto the shoulder belt so that the wire loops protrude through the backside, then secure them with a single or double strip of belt leather.

Some contractors pre-punched two slots for mounting, and some contractors later punched three slots to allow the "Burnside" plates to be fixed. But some contractrors varied the loop locations just enough to make pre-cut slots a nuisance, so it was easier to ship the plates spearately and attach them before issuance.

While one or two leather strips was common, there are variations such as whittled wooden pegs, binding with wire, and even simply bending the wire
loops over.

Curt

[paulcalloway]

Re: Breast plate installation?

While one or two leather strips was common, there are variations such as whittled wooden pegs, binding with wire, and even simply bending the wire
loops over.

Curt

I get the feeling that bending the loops over was the prevailing method used. In every extant sling/breatplate combo I've examined, the loops have been bent over. I don't think I've ever seen one using any other method. I realize that is anecdotal.

[Duvall Leatherwork]

Re: Breast plate installation?

Rich,

Every cartridge box I've examined has been the same...from the tip of the billet (The very tip end of the box belt) to the CENTER of the breast plate the measurement should be 25"....mark your loop holes, punch them, then use a thin leather strip to hold the plate in place! You shouldn't have to bend the loops over, but you my have to!

Check this out, if you are going to the high tide event, stop by my tent and I will put it on for you!

Good luck or I will see you in a few weeks...

Nick Duvall
Duvall Leatherwork
314 Wyoming Ave
Kingston, PA 18704
(570)283-9297
duvall_leatherwork@hotmail.com

https://www.duvallleatherwork.com

[roundshot]

Re: Breast plate installation?

To Paul's point on the bent hooks, attached is the rear of a Federal plate found by me in 1963 at Cold Harbor from a position occupied by the 8th New York Heavy Artillery. Of course, that might be why it fell off!

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: Breast plate installation?

Thanks, all! My new box and plates should arrive early next week, so I'll post again if I run into trouble...

[Jimmayo]

Re: Breast plate installation?

Most of my dug plates don't have any loops left but here are two that do.

One is dug with a good portion of the leather left and the loops are straight. No doubting how this one was secured.

The other is on a rig that belonged to Hugh Capner of the 23rd NJ. It is secured with leather.

Most I have seen have leather through the loops although I have seen many with the loops bent over.

Nice to be able to post pictures again.

[John E. Tobey]

Re: Breast plate installation?

Bending the loops over was perceived as being more secure, and this was probably the reason that some commands apparently ordered their troops to affix the plates by bending the loops.

Col. N. Crane to Capt. C. White, March 17, 1864: "Regarding the unacceptable losses of cartridge box belt plates, a remedy can be affected in the form of clenching the plate hooks behind the belt, thereby preventing the intentional or accidental separation of the two..."

John Tobey

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: Breast plate installation?

Out of curiosity, were the plates on cartridge box flaps ever fastened by clenching the loops over as well?

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

Re: Breast plate installation?

I'm not sure how the breastplates are made today, but years ago they were reproduced the metal loops were 90 degree off what they were supposed to be. I guess the manufacturer expected the re-enactor to bend the loops down on either side of the box sling. We constantly had to use a propane torch to melt the lead and reposition the loops so that they would punch through the box sling, like the originals. Maybe the repros are corrected now, just don't get too confused if the loops don't line up right.

Second on Nick Duvall, all I've seen use a sliver of leather through the loops to hold it on. Years ago a dealer found a cache of those original leather thongs and was selling them.

I also seem to remember Spence Waldron telling me some stories about box plates, breast plates, and leather thongs. Spence?

Greg Starbuck

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: Breast plate installation?

The breastplate I got from Regimental Quartermaster has the loops set at an angle to the vertical axis of the plate, so they would be in a correct line with the box sling when installing it. I'm still new at this, but to my inexpert eye it appears to be of decent quality in materials and workmanship (some file marks in the lead on the back of the breastplate). I'm guessing my belt plate came from the same die as the box flap plate (my belt, belt plate, and cartridge box plate all game from Regt. QM), as they are a perfect match for each other.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Breast plate installation?

Hallo!

"I'm guessing my belt plate came from the same die as the box flap plate (my belt, belt plate, and cartridge box plate all game from Regt. QM), as they are a perfect match for each other."

The more important question is how do the reproductions compare to the originals, not each other?

Not a reference to "Regt QM," but, there are some vendors that have been importing some really poor Indian/Pakistani versions, some going as far as going the hazardous lead material route and replacing the lead backing with gray epoxy.

Curt

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: Breast plate installation?

Not having an original to compare side-by-side, and not being an expert, I can't say how exactly the repros I have compare to the originals in minute details, but just looking at photos of the originals online, they look identical to me. But like I said, I'm no expert. I know that Regimental Quartermasters has been referred to as a "recommended sutler" by several units I've come across online, though how much of a qualification that is I have no idea.