Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

[Hank Trent]

Can someone point me to the rules for reproducting U.S. currency so I'm not arrested for counterfeiting? :)

I can find this page on the US Treasury website, which says images of currency must be one-sided and the wrong size, but there must be some other rule which allows more realistic reproductions if they're marked copy or facsimile, since I've seen them sold and used at reenactments. For example, the US fractional notes offered here marked facsimile.

I'd like to reproduce some post-war currency for a one-time public event, and I want to make sure I'm doing it just right. Couldn't find anything on the treasury site. Are there specifics about how big or where the word "facsimile" has to be, and other restrictions on size, color, etc.? Can someone point me to the actual treasury rules on this?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[MissMaggie]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

This may not fit into what you are trying to accomplish well enough but standard theatre practice is to change the picture of the person on the money, the name of the currency or make it a weird amount like a 324 dollar bill. However, since people may actually being looking at what you are handing out a bit more closely you could look into changing some of the smaller details like dates, colors, information placement, the size of the bill, ect. If all else fails you could try finding a props director at a local regional theatre or through USITT (United state institute for theatre technology) and see what they have to say.

[tenfed1861]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Hank,enjoy Petersburg Federal Prison.While there,look up about my great-grandfather,George Willis.
And don't drop the soap.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Hank,enjoy Petersburg Federal Prison.While there,look up about my great-grandfather,George Willis.
And don't drop the soap.

Sorry, but if I go to prison, I'm aiming for the Ohio State Penitentiary, so I can meet my wife's 4th great grandfather, who spent time there for counterfeiting in the 1840s.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[tenfed1861]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

You may like Goerge Willis.He not only help found the prison,but also escorted Al Capone to Atlanta.But meeting you're wife's 4th great would be cool too.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Hank-

From what an interview told me when I was in the media in Charleston, SC... the crime isn't making the historical notes, but it is in if you try to pass them as real to a collector. That's where you get dinged.

Just a thought... Johnny Lloyd

[JLHurst]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

I'd call a state treasury dept. and ask to be directed to someone who can help you. I'd also the advise of adding a " maker's mark " so to speak so it wouldn't be mistaken for an original. The same is being done with blacksmiths and knives.

[ley74]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Hank:

Give this a try. For Glendale we reduced the size and conformed to the Hobby Protection Act of 1973 by placing "COPY" on the note in the correct proportion.

One other hint, using Microsoft Publisher was invaluable as it allowed for precise allignment of obverse and reverse. While still a somewhat expensive proposition for a relatively small number of notes (boy were those 1861 demand notes beautiful), they looked pretty good.

Best regards,


http://newmarch.org/mmg/mundanelaw.htm

[Hank Trent]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Hank:

Give this a try. For Glendale we reduced the size and conformed to the Hobby Protection Act of 1973 by placing "COPY" on the note in the correct proportion.

Ah, the Hobby Protection Act is the law I was looking for.

However, if I'm reading it right, it applies to non-legal-tender items (Confederate, bank and state currency, for example), but U.S. currency that's still legal tender falls under the Treasury law.

From another site with the full Hobby Protection law:

The provisions of these regulations are in addition to, and not in substitution for or limitation of, the provisions of any other law or regulation of the United States (including the existing statutes and regulations prohibiting the reproduction of genuine currency) or of the law or regulation of any State.

So I guess that means that any Federal money printed two-sided and between 75% and 150% is technically illegal?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[PieBoy96]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Knowing that The Sullivan Press reproduces lots of currency, I checked their website about the issue. It reads:

"Re-enacting and Money

For the Federal re-enactor, you would have been paid in national notes starting in 1862. I have no sources here now that would tell me what the Federal government used to pay its troops in 1861. I suppose that it would have been hard currency.

The Confederate re-enactor would have been paid in first issue Confederate notes in 1861, and later issues later in the war.

I currently print my own currency following the express instructions of the United State Secret Service because there is a fine line between good reproductions and counterfeiting. It is a Federal offense to reproduce any United States national medium of exchange that has been minted or printed since 1797, the date of the creation of the United States Mint. You must make certain changes to the note, and most high-quality reproductions fail to comply with the changes necessary. By the way, according to the letter of the law, simply putting the word COPY on the bill is not enough. I finally got the OK in writing from the senior legal council to the Postal Inspector's office to produce postage stamps.

There is no corresponding law against counterfeiting other mediums of exchange, including Confederate notes and state bank notes."

http://www.sullivanpress.com/finance.htm

Maybe contact the Sullivan Press to see exactly what measures they took?

[davidf]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Kind of funny this topic came up, I was just thinking about this subject over the past few days because I was thinking about trying to find reproduction coins for the period (a online search results in not finding much, and on ebay it seems pretty easier to find and buy ORIGINAL coins than reproductions). If anyone knows a good supplier of period UNION coins, it would be appreciated.

My guess though is for those who want to purchase repro greenbacks, just do sullivan press, its the closest we are probably allowed. Otherwise, you might just have to buy original if it is your intent to show EXACTLY what greenbacks looked like.

[ley74]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Hank:

I did both the size differential and the "COPY" thingy. Never know what folks do for a living that participate in this hobby. All of us probably know one real Justice Department or Treasury folk.

For those who have never priced the 1861 Demand Notes, take a peek. In any reasonable condition, and most issued would have still had wet ink, it will take your breath away. Throw in the fact that specie had disappeared by June of 1862, fractional currency was under consideration but had not yet been approved, and you have one heck of a mess. Wait, hold on, that would be a decent article.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

I just want to say how much I miss Art Henrick's fine reproduction federal money, and his excellent customer service. His work in the days of early model color copy machines, and self inking series numbering stamps was hard to beat. Wherever you are in these modern times....thank you!

(Ley, if we have one more article of pecuniary interest in our bi-monthly newsletter, we are going to seriously consider changing the name to Columbia Numismatics.)

[Dreamer42]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Several months ago, while anticipating purchasing a new computer, printer, etc., I began working on period notes in Photoshop. I made small, but legible "REPRODUCTION" on each side of the notes. Also, while a real note has the face one side and the other upside down, I printed mine so that both sides faced right side up. My neighbor works at a bank and I asked her about this. She, knowing my interest in history, etc., explained that so long as they were destinguishable from originals in quality and that I never intended, or attempted to pass them off as originals, that I would be okay. Just be sure that all who examine them KNOW they are not originals and you will not have any problems. She did mention that the FBI takes a very keen interest in anyone making modern currency notes, though!
I have found it makes a very "rounded" first person interpretation if you have some local, or varried, currency - something the average soldier would have in his possession. I would advize keeping it conservative - a few national $1 and $5 bills, along with paper .50 cent notes, a few bank notes. Not many, I would think, would have $100 or $500 bills.

Dreamer42
- Jay Reid
9th Texas

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: Counterfeiting: yur doin it wrong

Mr. Trent, you have email!:D