1861 Springfield sight adjustment

[Chuck Reynolds]

Had my Springfield out live firnig and I noticed that it was hitting high and to the right consistantly. How do you correct the sights.

chuck

[BrandonEnglish]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

How are you pulling the trigger? I find myself doing this with modern firearms and occasionally the black powder arms. Make sure you are using just the very tip of your finger, some shooters have the tendency to put to much "finger" on the trigger and when you pull it you can jerk the rifle/handgun to the right throwing your aim off.

[Chuck Reynolds]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

Brandon
Over a period of time 3 of us shot the weapon and it was consistant.

Chuck

[Minieball577]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

The rifle-musket is going to shoot high with such a short front sight, providing that you are using the "stock" front sight/bayonet lug. The 'best' way to correct that would be to add material to the front sight, but this will likely stop you from using the bayonet. If you reduce your powder charge it may make up some of the difference.

[BrianHicks]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

At what range was the target?

The Max Ordinance of the shot may be such, that your target distance from the muzzle is what is resulting in the shots impacting high.

It could also be that all of you whom are shooting, have developed an incorrect sight picture. Is the clear tip of the front sight post, centered and flush with with the tops of the rear sight?

As to the rounds impacting to the right. This could indeed be the sights. if you are firing a basic repro (Armis Sport or Euro Arms) then there may be very little you can do, as they come with fixed sights, ad therefore offer very little in the opportunity to make mechanical adjustments.

If you query an NSSA forum with these same concerns, you may get better answers.

[lukegilly13]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

This is a common problem with these muskets. Here is what I tell everyone I encounter with this problem. The thing you must do first is develop a pattern when shooting. Accuracy = bullet hits the same every time (not necessarily the bullseye)
1. Start shooting very close up and progress backwards. Start at 20 yards, move back to 30, move back to 40, etc untill you reach 100 yards. Develop a chart that will help you determine when your bullet has stopped climbing and had began to drop.
2. Experiment with powder amounts. More powder will flatten this curve, less will make the curve greater but can increase accuracy. Be careful not to use too small of a load or to large as both of these could result in a busted barrel and major injury!
3. Make adjustments. There is not much you can do with these fixed iron sites. Some people file them down but it sounds like you have a larger problem than a couple of inches. I would suggest making/learning a sight picture that works for your rifle and your musket and you will just have to remember where to hold at each distance.
4. Weight and check each bullet. I've seen Minnie Balls vary as much as 10 grains in weight. You can trim a little lead to get them all to weigh the same. Also, make sure that each bullet is as close as possible to shame shape. If one is flattened, it will not shoot the same as a bullet perfectly round.
5. Finally, clean the gun often during targeting. A dirty gun does not always shoot the same as a clean one. Any fowling in the barrell can obstruct the bullet. I recommend using some sort of lubricant (such as Borebutter) to reduce this fowling. As a reference, swab the bore every 5 shots.
6. BE PATIENT! Realize that this process is going to take a while! You may not get finished in a day! Part of the fun of shooting primative weapons is learning your weapon. Modern weapons were created to be better than their predecessors or else we'd still be issuing them.
Tip: You may have to accept the fact that it's not going to be super accurate with this sighting system. Check into period scopes, period adjustable sites and you may eventually want to consider replacing the stock fixed sites with something more adjustable.
Hope this helps!

[BrianHicks]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

Sorry... but having been on the podium for so many years, improper verbiage when describing such things kind of gets to me. Please allow me to put what he was saying, in terms I'm used to using/hearing.

....... Develop a chart that will help you determine when your bullet has stopped climbing and had began to drop.

This is the Max Ordinate: Definition: In ballistics, the height of the highest point in the trajectory of a projectile above the horizontal plane passing through its origin. (aka: Mid-range Trajectory (MRT)- The highest vertical distance of a bullet above the line of sight at a point approximately halfway from muzzle to target or point of aim. The MRT varies with the zero range for a given load.)

I believe that some competitive shooters with the N-SSA would be great source for balistic charts on Civil War era rifles.

2. Experiment with powder amounts. More powder will flatten this curve, less will make the curve greater but can increase accuracy.

Well.... no... it doesn't really flatten the curve (although it may give that illusion). Increasing the powder load will increase the chamber pressure which will result in a greater muzzle velocity of the projectile which will extend the maximum range that projectile will travel, which means that it will take a greater distance to reach it's Maximum Ordinate.

[lukegilly13]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

Sorry Brian, I guess I have made a career out of putting things in terms that people can more easily understand. Teaching math to 13-15 year olds for 5 years has taken my physics support classes accompanying my mathematics degree and stored it in a deep dark closet somewhere and buried it under dust.

[BrianHicks]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

21 yrs in the Marine Corps, and having been a Primary Marksmanship Instructor, and having ran the Scout/Sniper School as well, have ruined me for life when it comes to such matters. :p

[Chuck Reynolds]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

Luke
Any idea where i could start researching perod adjustable sights
Chuck

[lukegilly13]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply...I think I would get in touch with some NSSA folks. You could also use the search function to find out the names of some gunsmiths that get good reviews from folks on the forum (try searching "defarbing musket"). I would be willing to bet that there are some excellent books out there on this subject. A quick amazon search seems to hit a few: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...il+war+weapons
Hope this helps!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 1861 Springfield sight adjustment

Hallo!

Herr Chuck...

I am not sure what you are asking about? In brief and to over-simplify the "standard" U.S. martial rifle did not get a rear sight adjustable for windage until the M1884 "Buffington" rear sight on the Trapdoor Springfield.
"Typically" rear sights adjusted for "elevation" and were simplified after 1858 with 100-300-500 yard leafs replacing the early M1855's 100-200-300-400-500 "long range" options (at a time when the "Enfield" still went 100-200-300-400-500-600-700-800-900).

Oh, with 100 yards being the cloest "range," your shots will go high if you are shooting at less distance.

In the N-SSA, they often raise the height of the front sight blade for their
50 yard event requirements.

Often times, the rear sights and the front sights on Italian repro''s are not
"top dead center" nor are the bores always bored true either of which will "throw off" POI.

As shared, assuming you want to optimize or maximize your gun beyond its Civil War issue historical function... you will need to "standardize" the ball size, diameter, lube, and powder charge (to name a few of the Biggies) to see what that gun wants to return the tightest group at the distance you wish to shoot at (no matter where the POI is on the target).
Once "group" is determined, on the bench (to reduce the effects of the nut behind the trigger) THEN you can move onto moving the group to center by playing with the rear and/or the front sights. (For example, the blade of the front sight can be raised to lower the group, or the rear sight leaves filled down on one side to shift their location in the direction you want the group to move in- often used with shim stock to prevent flapping and flopping).

Curt