Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

[DPSaffer]

Hello,
This is my first thread of my own on the AC, so I hope it is not a foolish question. I searched the site, but could not find the answer. Can anyone tell me what the purpose was behind pockets in the tails of officers/enlisted frock coats? It seems to me that it is an awkward place for a pocket, but I suppose they are not there for show.
Thanks,
Kyle Wichtendahl

[plankholder]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

It was for your dress gloves-keep in mind it was originally intended for a dress uniform. The pocket really are a bit more handy than you would think. Very handy to access when you are sitting cross-legged around the fire. Great place for matches, pipe, handkerchief etc...

[fedcampaigner]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

Or a place to stash a quick snack on the march. This way you don't have to dig through the rest of your gear

[DPSaffer]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

Thank you for the help gentlemen. I was just not sure.

- Kyle Wichtendahl

[rebjeb04]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

The pockets were handy for cavalry and officers while astride their steeds could easily retreive tobacco, pipe, matches, small notebook, photo of a loved one, etc.

I think there is an example of the dress gloves having been found in the tail pockets of a Louisiana frock shown in the Time-Life book "Fighting Men of the Civil War" or "Battlefields of the Civil War".

If you'd like a further source, I can look tonight and post the exact reference. I wondered the same thing for the longest time, but after having tail-pockets, have found them quite useful for storage.

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

Or are they there for show? Remember that for some decades now frocks were supposed to be tailored to form fit very, very well. Having an inside pocket on the breast would disrupt the clean pigeon chested silhouette that a frock is to create. The skirt is the only place to stick a pocket and not kill the "look."

[Spongebucket]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

Fellows,
If the military was following it's normal traditions, the pockets were for the scales. In the 1810,1812 and 1814,1832 uniforms (the fancy tailcoat that is replaced as the dress garment in 1851), the epulettes (of worsted wool) were to go in the pockets. When it was rolled up, the coatee would be turned inside out and folded. The epulettes inside the single pocket. For some reasone they kept pockets in the skirts of the 1821 and 1827 (modified) coatees...though, they were using the "wings". Seeings in 1851, they still used epulettes and later to scales, it is my educated guess that is what they were for. Your trousers were to hold your extra stuff. That is the same as saying the forage cap was called that because you put pillaged food in it.
my 2 pennies
Joe Blunt

[Kiev Thomason]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

The pockets were handy for cavalry and officers while astride their steeds could easily retreive tobacco, pipe, matches, small notebook, photo of a loved one, etc.

I think there is an example of the dress gloves having been found in the tail pockets of a Louisiana frock shown in the Time-Life book "Fighting Men of the Civil War" or "Battlefields of the Civil War".

If you'd like a further source, I can look tonight and post the exact reference. I wondered the same thing for the longest time, but after having tail-pockets, have found them quite useful for storage.

I wish I had my camera(Tripp!:wink_smil) When I get it back I will try and post some pics.The Cannonball house in Macon ,GA.has a Officer frock with one pocket in each chest pannel.In one was three plugs of chewing tabbaco.They were not the same as our modern ones .They are two inch by one inch by an eight inch plugs.That does not mean that they were left over from the war but who knows.They were found when the coat was given to them about three years ago.Also they own three other frocks one of Gen.Tracy of Macon and one of Major Anderson(field grade ) and one of an unkown Captain.All have pockets in the tail (inside lining) the only one with the brest pocket is Captain Hazelhurst.Joe is right though on what they should have been used for however I guess like us they used it to their needs.Maybe this will help ?

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

Gee, I wonder if civilians put shoulder scales into the tail pockets of their frocks?

I think this is more a matter of military fashion following the prevailing civilian fashion of the day. I own many original men's frock coats and tailcoats circa 1840-1870 all of them, even a pina cloth summer frock, have pockets in the tails. There are examples of original civilian frock coats with a buttonhole placed in the middle of the scallop, to prevent pick-pockets from reaching in and removing your pocket handkerchief or wallet. There are also engravings of civilian men and you can clearly see their pocket handkerchief hanging out of their tail pocket. It may seem odd to us to use these pockets for anything other than a special function, especially since reaching around to remove items from those pockets can seem most ungraceful, but they simply were used for whatever the man saw fit.

If a soldier put his shoulder scales into his tail pockets I think its because he thought it the best place to put them, rather than the military specifically including tail pockets into the design of a coat just for their storage.

Also, all of the original frocks and tailcoats I own have an inside left breast pocket, even the pina cloth frock, this pocket in no way disturbs the pigeon breasted look of the coat.

[john duffer]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

On a side note - I have a roll-up "desk" reproduced by Mr. Cavannaugh of Haversack Depot that fits in a tail pocket as though it were made for it. Go figure.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

Gee, I wonder if civilians put shoulder scales into the tail pockets of their frocks?

I think this is more a matter of military fashion following the prevailing civilian fashion of the day.

Yep, I agree. I see no reason to assume that civilian fashion copied the military.

My repro frock coats have both the tail pockets and inside left breast pocket, as does one original slightly post-war frock coat I own, and I can't put anything more than a few sheets of paper in the breast pocket without it showing a bulge when the frock is buttoned. In the tail pockets, by contrast, I've carried as much as a quart bottle of whiskey (that's a long story), without it disturbing the hang of the coat at all. So I always figured it was a way to carry anything, even just a wallet, that wouldn't look right in the breast pocket.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Tail Pockets in Frock Coats

I should clarify my earlier statement. The way the breast pocket of original frock coats and tailcoats is constructed in no way disturbs the pigeon breasted look of the coat. If you stick a salami in there, well, it might be noticeable.:)