Federal Dress Frock

[Ian M.]

I checked the research section but did not see posts addressing some detail questions about Federal enlisted frocks.

First question is: What is appropriate for collar hooks & eyes -- brass, steel or japanned steel?

Second question: Did the uniform regs do away with shoulder scales entirely at some point during the War? I've seen several enlisted frocks without any APPARENT evidence of the mounting devices on the shoulders or even removal of these items post-manufacture. Can anyone comment?

I'm looking at tuning up a dress frock if necessary with period-correct details such as these.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Federal Dress Frock

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize...

Tis complicated.

The 1851 pattern dress uniform "shoulder scales" were a "hit or miss" proposition until the Secreatry of War finally abolished them in the 1872 regulations.
With the 1858 changes, some wanted them gone, but nothing came of it.

As a result of the War, persuant to Special Orders NO. 31, February 11, 1862, a nunmber of regular and vounteer officers were convened to deliberate on changes or additons to the uniform of the Army. A number of proposals came out, sme based upon French fashions, but the board disbanded before new patterns were adopted.

IMHO, where this is "messy," is that War Time production and contract enlisted dress coats sometimes have the shoulder scale mounts and sometimes don't.

The same is true of the collar and skirt turnback hooks and eyes. The QM specs called for one "Black" hook and eye (read as collar), yet surviving examples as well as photographs exist with both collar and skirt hooks and eyes.

I have used "japanned" steel as they do not bend or crush as easily as to brass ones... ;) :) (And generally, add the two hooks-and-eyes to the skirts of my dress coats just to be "different." ;) :)

Curt

[Duff]

Re: Federal Dress Frock

This website has some good pictures of originals:

http://www.cwquartermaster.com/original_frock_coat.htm

[weed]

Re: Federal Dress Frock

If you go to my web site and use the link, "view details of original uniforms" then "original Frock Coats" I have pictures of these details

http://www2.inxpress.net/jwedeward

[CompanyWag]

Re: Federal Dress Frock

I always was of the opinion that the mounting hardware for shoulder scales was issued with the scales and was not issued as a part of the dress coat, although I have no documentation at hand to support that.

If true, then if there was no intention to wear scales by the soldier drawing the coat, there should be no hardware left on the shoulders to snag canteen and haversack straps. The vast majority of original coats I've examined over the last few decades show no sign of ever having shoulder scale hardware attached. The few I've encountered that did, were known to have been altered for museum display purposes.

Paul

[knot]

Re: Federal Dress Frock

Gentlemen,
I have seen an original frock coat belonging to a Sergeant Major with original hardware for shoulder scales (but no scales with the uniform). It is held in a private collection, and the individual enlisted in late '64 and was discharged in '66, never serving in a combat capacity, but on recruiting service and staff duty. I can obtain photographs, but it might take a little while...

Alan