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Marching with fixed bayonets

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  • #1

    Marching with fixed bayonets

    An officer in the 33rd Arkansas reported:

    “In the darkness one could see nothing. Then a flash of lightning would come and reveal a long line of bayonets stretching away down the road and out into the darkness.”
    This was while they (Churchill’s Arkansas Brigade) were marching towards Jenkin’s Ferry, and Steele’s Federals.

    My question is, why would you march with bayonets “fixed” in a blinding thunderstorm…or any other time? Would that extra piece of metal left in the scabbard make the Musket/Rifle weigh less?

    I know that accurate shooting with a bayonet attached would be hard, as it throws off the bullet’s point of impact, to the point of aim.

    Kevin Dally
    Kevin Dally
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

    One possibility is that they were expecting to go into action very quickly, and may have intended to use bayonets intead of musket fire in order to have the element of surprise. There are several instinces of that happening, like the attacks on redouts 9 and 10 at Yorktown. Washington ordered the men to attack with bayonets and unloaded muskets so that no one would accidentily fire and warn the enemy.
    Derek Carpenter
    Starr's Battery

    "First at Bethel, farthest at Gettysburg and Chickamauga, last at Appomattox"

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    • #3
      Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

      IIRC:

      At 1st Bull Run, the Confederates on the left saw the Federals flanking them by the light glinting off their fixed bayonets.

      G.K. Warren noticed the Confederates concentrated on the left flank near LRT at G'burg by firing an artillery round over the area and seeing the movement of fixed bayonets.

      Early in the war, there were still commanders who believed in the supremacy of the bayonet over the smoothbore musket due to closer ranges. The rifle-musket gradually changed that thinking.
      Bernard Biederman
      30th OVI
      Co. B
      Member of Ewing's Foot Cavalry
      Outpost III

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      • #4
        weather related?

        By the way, what is the source of the quote?

        Just a thought, perhaps they were expecting quick action and since the weather was foul maybe they thought the muskets would be too.

        Dunno,
        John Pillers
        Looking for images/accounts of 7th through 12th Ill. Inf. regiments from April 1861 - April 1862

        'We're putting the band back together'

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        • #5
          Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

          Originally posted by Pritchett Ball View Post
          I know that accurate shooting with a bayonet attached would be hard, as it throws off the bullet’s point of impact, to the point of aim.
          It also throws off the balance of the rifle which makes it much harder to aim and hit your intended target when you are used to holding the rifle at the proper balance point without a bayonet.

          Even if going into action soon in a lightning storm, wouldn't the officers realize they had a column of lightning rods?
          Brandon English

          "There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell."--William T. Sherman

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          • #6
            Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

            Hallo!

            It might make for a side discussion whether a bayonet on a wooden gun stock is a lightning rod or not (assuming one does not touch the barrel, etc.,).
            One could make an argument that hobnails and heel plates are bad because lightning also can strike people (and animals such has cows) through their feet...) As well as streaming sideways.
            But with people being 80% water, IMHO you lose either way. ;)
            Especially when the water table is high, or the ground mucky, or for that matter as in Florida where the lightnng hits are twice those in other states- the sandy soil is a good conductor.

            :)

            Curt
            Curt Schmidt
            In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

            -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
            -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
            -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
            -Vastly Ignorant
            -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

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            • #7
              Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

              I agree for the idea "go into action very quickly".
              In the beginning of war it can also explain by the Napoleonic military doctrine exemplifying the armies in the world of period, indeed during the 1st Empire and the Napoleonic wars the bayonet is a part of the weapon it is always above...
              William Miconnet
              French Mess
              AES
              BGR & IPW Survivor
              Never ever give up!
              In memory of Steve Boulton, live the little story, lost in the history...
              I believe!

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              • #8
                Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

                Marching with bayonets fixed was not an uncommon practice.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

                  “In the darkness one could see nothing. Then a flash of lightning would come and reveal a long line of bayonets stretching away down the road and out into the darkness.”
                  This was while they (Churchill’s Arkansas Brigade) were marching towards Jenkin’s Ferry, and Steele’s Federals.
                  My knowledge of the battle at Jenkin's Ferry is limited...but I pulled this up.

                  At 12 o'clock that night we resumed our march and continued it until we arrived within a mile of the Saline Bottom, when we halted and built fires to warm and dry the men. It had rained Friday evening and nearly all that night. The men were very wet and the roads quite muddy.
                  Report of Brig. Gen. James C. Tappan, C.S. Army, commanding brigade, of engagement at Jerkins'' Ferry
                  It was a forced march of 25 miles knowing they would be going into battle. Maybe it was knowing the enemy was there but not knowing when they would make contact. Or possibly it had something to do with stacking arms and resting along the march. They were halted and given the order to stack arms and it saved time by being able to skip over the order to fix bayonets.:thinking::
                  [FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"]Cody G. Farrell[/SIZE][/FONT]
                  [FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]UpStart Mess[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT] - [URL="http://www.geocities.com/codygfarrell/homepage1"]http://www.geocities.com/codygfarrell/homepage1[/URL]
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                  • #10
                    Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

                    The Prussians adopted from the Russians the habit of perminantly keeping the bayonet fixed to the piece. As a general rule, they did not wear bayonet scabbards. In fact, typically Prussian infantrymen...in the Franco-Prussian war, and probably also the Austro-Prussian war...carried a fascine knife on their left hip as a side-arm, where we would normally expect a bayonet carriage to be, and again the bayonet was simply carried on the musket as, well, a part of the musket...much like the hammer, triggerguard, or any other part.
                    Tom Scoufalos
                    [IMG]http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=268&pictureid=2165[/IMG]

                    "If you don't play with your toys, someone else will after you die." - Michael Schaffner, Chris Daley, and probably other people too...

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                    • #11
                      Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

                      How d' ye!

                      Correct.
                      And were still doing the same in World War I.

                      Curt
                      Curt Schmidt
                      In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                      -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                      -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                      -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                      -Vastly Ignorant
                      -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: weather related?

                        [QUOTE=John of the Skulkers Mess;119490]By the way, what is the source of the quote?

                        The quote comes from the book Steele's Retreat from Camden and The Battle of Jenkin's Ferry by Edwin C. Bearss.

                        Kevin Dally
                        Kevin Dally

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                        • #13
                          Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

                          "One possibility is that they were expecting to go into action very quickly, and may have intended to use bayonets intead of musket fire in order to have the element of surprise."

                          I have to ask how long would it take to FIX bayonets? It sure takes no time for me to fix mine! Being a rainy night, I sure would hate to FALL onto someone elses fixed bayonet, and get skewered!

                          I was wondering if there was something in a manual that designates this being done on the march, but I have not seen one.

                          I know the FIRST time I ever marched in line with a good sized unit was back in 99, with the Red River Battalion at an event here in Texas. We marched with fixed bayonets, and I must say they looked awesome swaying in time together...but other than the "cool" factor, I often wondered why would you do it?

                          Kevin Dally
                          Kevin Dally

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                          • #14
                            Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

                            I have to ask how long would it take to FIX bayonets?
                            It may not have been the time involved, but the sound. Several hundred guys clanking their bayonets around can be pretty noisy. Just a thought though.
                            Derek Carpenter
                            Starr's Battery

                            "First at Bethel, farthest at Gettysburg and Chickamauga, last at Appomattox"

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                            • #15
                              Re: Marching with fixed bayonets

                              Derek Carpenter
                              It may not have been the time involved, but the sound. Several hundred guys clanking their bayonets around can be pretty noisy. Just a thought though.
                              Hi,

                              I was thinking the same thing.
                              Andrew Kasmar

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