Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

[FTrooper]

OK Chaps,

I started what I thought was going to be a basic research project and it has snowballed out of control, so I am turning to the general forum at large for direction.

The questions concern the smaller flags used by infantry to include "Camp Colors" "Guides" and "Markers"...most sources say they are one in the same, but with very basic research it is VERY clear they are not! SO when does the army start using all three? When are "Camp Colors" used and why? And I have a description for pre-1862 and the 1863 version...AND the 1885 version...are there any SERIOUS flag historians I might contact to see what differences there might be between 1863-1885? What about 1847-1862 era?

Chris Fischer
Fort McKavett
&
F-Troop

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

I would try posting your questions on the following BB...

http://history-sites.com/cgi-bin/bbs53x/cwflags/webbbs_config.pl

Greg Biggs would probably jump into the fray and help you out!
Respectfully:

Kevin Dally

[Joe Walker]

Re: Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

Interesting subject, Chris. I was doing some research on an Alabama unit last week and came accross a requisition that a staff officer had made for a drum and a "hand color". I would assume it is a small flag, such as a marker, but it might even be paint. Hopefully someone can address what a "hand color" might be as well.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

[markj]

Re: Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

Read these "Military Collector & Historian" articles by the late Howard Madaus--you'll find them very interesting:

A-2963 Camp Colors, General Guide Flags and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part I Vol. 48 Issue 2 Page 50

A-2980 Camp Colors, General Guide Flags and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part II Vol. 48 Issue 3 Page 106
A-2995 Camp Colors, General Guide Flags and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part III Vol. 48 Issue 4 Page 155
A-3012 Camp Colors, General Guide Flags and Flank Markers in the United States Army, 1861-1865: Part IV Vol. 49 Issue 1 Page 18

Short observation: camp colors, general guide flags, and flank markers were all designed for specific tasks. However, not all units used, or were issued, them. Sufficient documentation exists to indicate perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 of regiments received a full complement of these colors.

In the case of Indiana, where I live, I've found evidence for only a relatively small percentage of units actually receiving them, much less taking them into the field.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Charles Heath]

Re: Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

SO when does the army start using all three? When are "Camp Colors" used and why? And I have a description for pre-1862 and the 1863 version...AND the 1885 version...are there any SERIOUS flag historians I might contact to see what differences there might be between 1863-1885?

Chris,

Rob "Goat" Willis, co-editor of the Columbia Rifles' newsletter, and pretty good researcher in spite of that, has an interest in these forgotten flags. Shoot him an email at willis.4@comcast.net, and he may be of assistance.

Good luck. Actually had the chance to use a spry young 4th Virginia fellow as marker at an event a couple of months ago, but it was dark and we needed no flag.

[JustRob]

Re: Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

There is a camp color from the Corcoran Legion hanging on the wall outside the Officer's Club at the 69th New York Armory in NYC. Several people on this board have seen it in person. It is a modest size with a green background and a yellow harp in the center. There are no other markings.

[markj]

Re: Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

Attached is one of many reports from the New York Times detailing presentation of "stands of colors." The particular unit taking receipt of them on this occasion was the 133rd (Second Metropolitan) New York Volunteer Infantry. A capsule unit history of this regiment follows:

http://members.aol.com/DAP4477575/133rd.html

A stand of colors, as, defined in this particular report, consisted of a national flag, a regimental flag, and two "guidons." The "guidons" were most likely smaller versions of the U.S. flag in compliance with new QMD specifications issued in early 1862. I would surmise these particular flags were thereafter entrusted to men selected as general guides for the regiment.

Truly yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[FTrooper]

Re: Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

Thanks guys,

I have posted and contacted those you have suggested.

Ironically, Mark, I have two of those issues of the CMH Journal! But they are packed up since I moved, guess I have to do some digging and order a couple back issues, huh?

Chris Fischer
Fort McKavett
&
F-Troop

[NC5thCav]

Re: Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

This is a short article I found on Confederate camp colors, markers, and guides. It seems to indicate North Carolina and Georgia were fond of them.

http://www.confederateflags.org/army/FOTC2dary.htm#markers

CAMP COLORS, FLANK MARKERS, & GENERAL GUIDE FLAGS

Just as the North and the South had diverged into two separate cultures in the years before the American Civil War, the U.S. Regular Army and the State Militias experienced a dichotomy of cultural influences. The Regular Army was still attached to many of the traditions that it had inherited from the English Army. The State Militias, while also tracing their ancestry to the English militia, was generally more receptive to change and the adoption of the French innovations that had been promoted during the reign of Napoleon and his successors. In the usage of small secondary flags by foot regiments—camp colors in the English and Regular U.S. Army and flank markers and general guide flags in the French Army and the progressive militia of the U.S., this dichotomy was distinctly apparent.

Camp colors had been part of the equipage of the Regular Army since the inception of the Republic. Like those in the English Army they were small (18" square) flags made of bunting in the color of the facings of the regiment and bearing the number of the regiment in their center. While the color of the camp colors varied from regiment to regiment in the English Army, by U.S. Army Regulations, they were white for infantry and red for artillery—colors that had been selected as facing colors for the army prior to the War of 1812. In 1862, all camp colors in the U.S. Army were made uniform, consisting of a version of the "Stars & Stripes" printed on small bunting fields, 18" hoist by 21" fly. Intended for marking the boundaries of a camp of foot soldiers, some were pressed into service during the War as flank markers, a practice also extended to guidons.

Flank markers and general guide flags—both small flags carried at each end of a line of infantry to permit the commanding officer at the center of the line to judge if the alignment of his command was correct—differed from one another in the means they were carried. Flank markers had their own full length staffs, while general guide flags were flown from short staffs that were either inserted into the muzzle of the rifles that were carried by the two sergeants serving as the regiment's general guides, or on similar staffs that affixed to the muzzle like a bayonet. Their origin lay in the French Napoleonic traditions, and they had gained (unofficial) popularity among the State Militias of the various states that considered themselves "avant guarde". While camp colors were available to nearly every Union regiment of infantry or heavy artillery, perhaps only one out of five Union regiments adopted or were presented flank markers or general guides. In the Confederate Army and those regiments raised by her states, the usage of these flags was even more restricted.

Among the states of the Confederacy, two—Georgia and North Carolina—seem to have promoted the use of camp colors by their units. The 1861 uniform regulations of the state of Georgia called for camp colors to accompany the state flags of the two regiments of "Georgia Regulars" that were to be raised. However, it is not known if the state accommodated these regulations and provided camp colors to the 1st Georgia Regulars. North Carolina, on the other hand, while not incorporating descriptions of camp colors in the uniform regulations issued by that state, definitely began furnishing such flags with its state flags in 1862.

Abstracts of Clothing, Camp & Garrison Equipage provided by North Carolina in April of 1862 indicate that, in addition to a state flag, four other flags were issued to the 46th, the 48th, and the 49th North Carolina State Troops. Five other regiments (the 11th, the 43rd, the 45th, the 50th, and the 52nd) received state flags in the same period, but it is not documented that they received camp colors. Nevertheless, during the assault on the Petersburg lines on 2 April 1865, a pair of small (9" hoist by 10 1/2" fly) red woolen flags bearing the white numerals "11" were captured from a position held by the 11th North Carolina State Troops. The Union accounts of the battle of Hanover Court House in May of 1862 describe one of the Confederate units attacking with the "Stars & Bars" in the center of the unit and red guide flags on each flank. Since the Confederate forces engaged at Hanover Court House consisted primarily of North Carolina regiments, it is likely that the camp colors provided by that state were indeed red with the numbers of the regiments in white figures on each.

While the camp colors provided from the Raleigh Clothing Depot would logically seem to have been intended exclusively for North Carolina units, it is worthy to note that Lt. Col. Edward Hull of the 2nd Missouri Infantry (then enroute to Corinth, Mississippi from the Trans-Mississippi Confederacy) received "4 marker flags and staffs" from Raleigh on 25 April 1862! It is noteworthy that the flags are called "marker" flags, as that was the same designation affixed to small flags purchased from Hayden & Whilden of Charleston, South Carolina by the Confederate Quartermaster's Department later in 1862 and early 1863.

On 20 June 1862, the commanding officer of the 22nd South Carolina Infantry (then stationed on James Island near Charleston) acknowledged the receipt of one regimental flag and "4 markers-flags" of the Confederate Quartermaster's Department. This is the earliest recorded issue of "markers" in the Confederate Department of South Carolina and Georgia (afterwards the Department of South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida). The practice of providing four markers to units serving as part of the Charleston garrison continued through at least February of 1863. All accompanied Confederate 1st national flags manufactured under contract with Hayden & Whilden of Charleston. On 8 August 1862, the Eutaw (25th) South Carolina Regiment was the recipient of four markers, their regimental flag not being delivered until 12 September. Among a group of flags received by the Confederate Quartermaster's Department on 10 February 1863 was a regimental flag and 4 markers for the 11th South Carolina Reserves. On the same day but under a different invoice, Lamar's South Carolina Battalion also received a regimental flag and four markers. The regimental flags delivered with these orders cost between $45.00 and $60.00 each; the markers, on the other hand, were priced at $6.00 in 1862 and $8.50 in 1863. Their design remains an enigma. The same may be said of the "general guide flags" carried by Rodes' Alabama Brigade in 1862 and 1863.

On 22 July 1862, General Robert E. Rodes (commanding an Alabama brigade consisting of the 3rd, 5th, 6th, 12th, and 26th regiments) directed that each regiment of his command "will also fill up their colors guards, appoint markers and furnish them with flags, and provide their color sergeants with a belt and socket for the color lance." After the close of the Manassas and Sharpsburg campaigns, he found it necessary (on 9 October 1862) to reiterate his orders, directing that "the color guards, general guides and at least two markers in each regiment ... are provided and will have their colors mounted on a straight staff and have the color bearers provided with belt & socket". The regimental commanders of the brigade must have made efforts to comply with these orders, for on 25 July 1862, Colonel J.B. Gordon, commanding the 6th Alabama Infantry requisitioned "Two (2) color flags for markers for 6th Ala. Regt." No record exists to confirm compliance with this requisition, but it is likely that the quartermaster's department made an effort to furnish the items. If so, unfortunately, no record of the design of these flags has survived. Nevertheless, it is notable that during the Valley Campaign of 1864 (in which Rodes'/Battle's Brigade participated), one of the flags captured by Union forces was a small (18" hoist by 19 1/2" fly) fringed 11 star Confederate 1st national flag made of woolen and cotton goods. It has been suggested that this flag may represent one of the markers ordered for Rodes' Brigade in 1862; however, the evidence is insufficient at this time to confirm that suspicion.

Howard Michael Madaus

[FTrooper]

Re: Camp Colors, Guides, Markers

OK, Mark was right.

I got home to my storage and low and behold I had all four copies of the CMH he referenced. It answered about 90% of my question including the fact that the government depots only made "camp colors" until 1885 and that these were often used as guides and markers. States like NY issued all three all the time. Some units carried Cavalry Guidons in their place and the pre-war version were issued 10 to a regiment (on per company I guess)...so I guess the only thing I wonder now is what was going on between 1865-1885? the 1868 and 1874 Infantry Tactics mention guides and markers so it was a practice in the regular army...the question now is did they use the "camp Colors" or the Cavalry Guidon!?!?!?!?!...which is a question a little past the focus of this forum, LOL!

Thanks,

Chris Fischer
Fort McKavett
&
F-Troop