Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Hi,

That is all very interesting, Mr. Schneider, thanks for posting the information. For my part I believe the uniforms that were seen at the Battle of Chickamauga were the Richmond Depot. Just my 2 cents.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Wash ives of the 4th Florida references recieving dark grey jackets with blue cuffs post Missionary ridge (Ives was 4th Fl).

Hi,

From my understanding, the jacket that you are referring to was a dark grey wool jean jacket. Dan Wambaugh, makes a reproduction of this jacket, so you may want to ask him what information he has on it.

[Secesh]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

According to J.B. Polley ( a member of Hood's Brigade), in his book "Hood's Texas Brigade", the Brigade stopped in Wilmington, N.C. for 2 days, where it changed trains for the firdt and only time on the trip to Bragg's Army. They also made one final stop in Atlanta before uniting with Bragg. Polley makes absolutely no mention of receiving uniforms prior to getting on the train. He does allude to the fact that their gear and clothing was worn and they had little in the way of rations...

[DougCooper]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Gents,
Has anyone seen documentation of English Army Cloth/Blue Gray jackets (aside from Tait or Houston Depot jackets) used in the Western Theatre of operations. I tried to find some info using the threads but had no luck.

Thanks for your time and information.

Very Respectfully,
John Turner

John - put in English Army Cloth in the search window - many, many threads come up, of which this is just one: http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...ish+army+cloth

[LWhite64]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

The idea that the uniforms were issued in NC came from Glenn Tucker in his Chickamauga: Bloody Battle In the West, but it was a guess. In his correspondence with the park he speculates that since NC made so much and since the Confederacy didnt have anything thats how Longstreets men got the new uniforms, remember that the book was written years ago and the Ragged Rebel myth was in full swing. But it didnt happen, Gov. Vance was night inclined toward Longstreet's men after they rioted in Raleigh on the way down, plus he was so tight with his clothing it took extraordinary persuastion to get him to let go of 14,000 during the winter of 63-64 for Longstreet's men who were then in dire need. I looked at the QM records of many of Longstreet's men and they were issued clothing BEFORE they left Virginia, so thats what I would go with.

Lee

[Secesh]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Gov. Vance did take State's Rights to the extreme....

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

So Longstreet's men supplied in Va, traveled across/down the Southern Seaboard, then rioted in a Southern metropolis all the while dressed in blue garments (in which hardened CS officers and soldiers later confused them as Federals) and there is no mention, no account, no newspaper clip of the Blue coated Rebs until they get to North Georgia ?

[LWhite64]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Well I dont think that Blue Grey clothing stood out along the eastern coast. A number of years ago, Dave Hunter of the North State Rifles wrote a good article on this very subject. Also to note, after the riot by Benning's men in Raleigh, they were getting Longstreet's men through the state as fast as they could.
As far as accounts go, other than Tucker's secondary account, where does it say that Longstreet's men got clothing in NC?

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Lee White

Well I dont think that Blue Grey clothing stood out along the eastern coast.

Hi,

I totally agree, troops wearing English Army Cloth or other blue grey uniforms on the East Coast would not stand out.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

I didn't claim they got them in NC.....I simply asked a poster who said they were RD2, how they support / know they are RD2's.

I was at the Chickamauga NMP ANV/AOT event. I am assuming the Longstreet troops there were accurate, research based, representations. They looked like Federals.

I now have learned from Mr. White blue jacketed / blue trousered CS troops where the norm on the eastern coast, so a train load pulling into town full of blue clad soldiers, who then rioted at one point would not have raised an eyebrow.

Please know I am not challenging or applying critical thinking to the word of Lee White.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Should we move this thread? I think this is an excellent discussion about Longstreet's men....but the thread was concerned with Blue/Gray kersey in the west. Even if Longstreet's men were issued Richmonds in bgk or NC's in bgk...those are still eastern issues.....

Never mind...he said "used" in the west.`

I think we are overlooking something...in the east, the BGK was being compared to various shades of gray....the darker logwood or walnut dye and the lighter summac or natural blend jean, satinette, cassimere.....it looks very blue in contrast. However, when compared to federals, bgk doesn't look so blue. I agree with Mr. Rideout that a piledging group of fancy dressed confederates would raise an eyebrow...and I think it did. But who had a camera?

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Hi,

Are there any images of either Longstreet's or for that matter any CS troops on the Chickamauga Campaign?

[lukegilly13]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Well yes Andrew there is. In fact, it's been debated on his forum...the problem is..the most famous one from the LOC is of prisoners....lot of sacks...few overcoats....give me a second and i'll post it.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...emp/~pp_klDD::
LC-B811- 2654[P&P]

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

Hi,

Thanks for posting the picture.

[Secesh]

Re: Western English Army Cloth/Blue Gray Jackets?

In Peter Cozzen's book "This Terrible Sound", he reprints a portion of an Ohian's diary, who comments on the men of Longstreet's Corp which they captured. The Ohioan states that up to that time they were accustomed to seeing Rebs in grey or butternut, non-descript "come as you may clothing". He said that it wasn't the blue grey color of their uniforms ( which at first glance, in his words, made them appear as Federals), but rather the uniformity of their clothing. Every man had a blue gray, short roundabout, sky blue trowsers, knapsacks, and kepis. To me, this does not sound like an issue from the Richmond Depot, but rather from a State. We know from existing examples that the so-called RD2 jackets came in a plethora of colors and materials, yet these men were all clad in the same. I have my doubts that Richmond would go to such trouble to make sure every man was identically outfitted. In "Letters to Amanda, the Letters of Marion Hill Fitzpatrick", Sgt. Hill Fitzpatrick writes to his wife that he drew a new uniform, but makes it clear that the men were being given different shades / colors. This is just several months after Chickamauga. However, I think that if a state, in this case N.C., is importing their own material from England, it's quite likely that a vast quantity of their uniforms are going to be cut from the same, showing much more uniformity. In fact, I do recall reading somewhere that of all Lee's men, the North Carolinian's were the best and most uniformally outfitted. J.B. Polley does not state why his Brigade stayed in Wilmington for 2 days, but it is possible that they were there to be outfitted for the Chickamauga Campaign. Reqs may have gone thru Richmond for these uniforms, but as I believe Les Jensen pointed out, it doesn't mean that the Richmond Depot necessarily filled the request. It would have been filled by the closest Depot / facility.