Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

[ndnchf]

I've searched the archives, but found almost nothing onthis subject.

What steps should be taken to defarb a Pedersoli 1859 Sharps Infantry rifle? Besides the obvious incorrect things like Italian markings, lack of a pellet priming system and .54 vs .52 cal, what else is not right? What can be done to improve them?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Co. A, 13th VA. INF.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Hallo!

"What steps should be taken to defarb a Pedersoli 1859 Sharps Infantry rifle? Besides the obvious incorrect things like Italian markings, lack of a pellet priming system and .54 vs .52 cal, what else is not right? What can be done to improve them?"

Do you mean Italian markings, lack of Sharps' markings, lack of the "hump" of the Lawrence pellet mechanism on the lockplate, and .54 or "improve them" refers to the Italian reproductions BEYOND those quoted??

In brief...

A short answer is that the Italian "Hardwood" does not look in color and grain much like the American Black Walnut used on original Sharps. The stock can be stripped, tinted with dye or stain, and "reoiled" to more closely resemble ABW.
(Also, the modern barrel blueing does not look all that much like the original blueing, so it can be stripped and professionally redone to appear as originals.)

Curt

[ndnchf]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Sorry I wasn't clear. What I'm asking is what can realisticly be done to make the Pedersoli Sharps look more like an original? Refinishing the stock makes sense.

Who inspected and accepted them for the government? I assume there should be one or two cartouche stamps on the stock - whose initials? and does anyone have the correct stamp today - JRE, Zimmerman etc.?

I agree, the modern barrel bluing is much different from what was used 145 years ago.

Is there anything else that should/could be done to improve appearances?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
13th VA Inf. Co. A

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Hallo!

As with any of the so-called "de-farbing" concepts on any reproduction, they are a Sliding Scale of Imperfection that depends upon a combination of what can be done and what a lad chooses to have done based upon his the needs and wants of his Mental Picture (of what he sees himself doing and where he sees himself fitting in).

Off the top of my head, the only Sharps inspector I can recall is John Thomas who used a rectangular script "JT" stamp. I know of NO service that offers this stamp, (and to my knowledge the only Sharps carrying such are they ones I worked on in the past).

IMHO, beyond the basic "de-farb" work, the next "jump up the sliding scale" for Sharps is to replace the lock with either a repro Garrett lock or have an original restored to its CW Era appearance (which can cost several hundred dollars plus). Most lads, IMHO, learn to live with, and ignore the lack and look of the Sharps lockplate's Lawrence Pellet Primer mechanism area and the mutant solid block treatment that replaces it.
Then possibly replacing the rear sight with a mint or restored original...
;) :)

Curt

[ndnchf]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Thanks Curt, I appreciate your advice.

Steve Blancard

[Jboring]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

I'm going to apologise ahead of time for scraping this thread up from the graveyard. But since I just came upon a Ped Sharps myself, I'm interested in what stain might best approximate the proper stock shade and color? What success have others had out there? Also...has anyone sourced rear sights? The ladder sight is trash on my Ped.

[Union Navy]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

I haven't done anything with the stock or bluing yet, but I did get a Lawrence lockplate (form Curt, I think). It was missing the switch (obtained from S&S) and the hammer had to be drilled to clear the top cover screw. The hammer also does not have the appropriate cuts in the back to operate the primer. So, it does have all the parts and looks correct, but does not work. It fit right in place of the original "lump" with only minor filing.

The USSS photos of Sharps rifles I have seen had the saber bayonet (at least California Joe's did), so you might want to look into this. Though Berdan had any bayonet lugs removed to keep his sharpshooters from being used in bayonet charges.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Hallo!

The issue/problem with repro Sharps stocks is the same as with the Italian Enfields and Springfields- so looking at older discussions on stock "de-farbing" will cover the same ground.

In brief and to over generalize...

The secret is to refinish the "Northern Italian Hardwood" (aka "European Walnut") to look more like the American Black Walnut range used on the originals.
For me personally, afer many years of messing aorund with commercial "gunbuilder"stains- a mentor of mine, the late Kit Ravenshear, taught me to use alcohol based leather dye (Fiebings or Tandy's) diluted with rubbing alcohol both for so-called "de-farb" work as well as restoration and repairs on oriignals. I NUG use "Dark Brown" and thin it with alcohol. Sometimes "Medium Brown."

Different wood react differently to stains, dyes, tints, and washes so it is a godo idea to experiment on naked wood that is out of sight first such as the barrel channel or under the butt plate, etc. One of the worst things, IMHO, that happens is that things shift or turn reddish or orangey which end sup lookng like cherry and not ABW.

In Ye Olden Daze, the Italians were really big on polyurethane (plastic varnish) clear finishes over a a shoe polish-like brown stock "paint." This allowed cheap and inferior wood to be used since the brown "paint" covered a lot of faults. That also included the use of yellow beech with hits speckled grain patterns. But in a rare concession to Hobby demand, the Italians NUG have gone to 'European Walnut" and "oiled" finishes in the 1990's.
So, that will make a differecne if one picks up a used odler gun from the "plastic over brown paint daze" versus the "oiled" finished.

I am out of the loop on Sharps parts pricing, as I last looked 15 years ago, and they were scarcer than hen's teeth. "Online," or maybe speciality parts dealers like Bill Osborn or Macy Hallock might be the best way to go.

Curt

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Bob,

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with your last two sentences. "California Joe" purchased his NM1559 Sharps rifle with his own money before reporting to camp of instruction, as such it had the standard bayonet lug and saber bayonet. The special model dst (double set trigger) Sharps ordered by Berdan had the subtraction of the bayonet lug and saber bayonet, and utilized an angular bayonet to alleviate the extra cost of having the dst installed. These bayonets were made by Collins & Co. specifically for the NM1859 Berdan contract Sharps, and originals can command high prices today. Bayonets were issued with the Berdan model Sharps rifles, and reissued as needed to the regiments (I have seen the paperwork showing issuances in both in December of '62 and March of '64, there could be others as well.) I hope this clears things up.

[Union Navy]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Dan:
Thanks for the update. I was going by a line from "Sharpshooting in the Civil War" by John Plaster, page 67, which says "First, he (Berdan) eliminated the bayonet lug on the barrel, which probably enhanced barrel harmonics and also conveniently precluded his men being called on to assault like line infantry." But the photo right below this shows a documented USSS rifle with an angular bayonet.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Bob,

Sounds like Mr. Plaster may have used campfire talk at re-enactments as "research."

Interestingly enough, there is a rare photo of a member of the 1st USSS in his shirtsleeves in the USAHMF collection in Carlisle, PA where just to the right of the soldier is a stack of dst NM1859 Sharps rifles!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Hallo!

Correct. The changes to the NM1859 Sharps Rifle are what some refer to as the "Berdan Contract." Chief of Ordnance Ripley had ordered 1,000 Sharps NM1859 Rifles with accoutrements and 100,000 cartridges in January of 1862. Ripley was worried that the Berdan order would delay an order for 1,000 Sharps carbines. Palmer at Sharps thought not, and promised a 20 to 25 day turn-around on the first batch of 1,000 rifles as there was not much differecne between making carbines versus rifles.
Ripley then ordered another 1,000 rifles for Berdan.

Berdan was ticked when the rifles were delayed, fearing that Ripley would stick him with muzzleloaders. Colt M1855 Revolving Rifles being the "compromise" in the works.
Berdan wrote to Palmer and complained- but also asked for modffications- double set triggers, socket bayonet, and the front sight modified to allow for the socket rather than the sabre bayonet of the NM1859 (obviouslyt that meant deleting the sabre bayonet lug)..

In March, Palmer blamed Berdan's request for the delay. Anyways, attention and overtime, even Sundays, got the first batch (100) out on April 11, 1862 followed by batches through May.

The business about the bayonets stems from Berdan giving the men permission ("privilege") to take the bayonets or not (and roughly half did not). His fear, and annoyance, from the start had been that the Sharpshooters would be used as skirmishers not marksmen, and that the bayonet would make them more attractive as skirmishers...

:)

This would later pop up as a charge during his March 1863 court martial trial, after an inspection in December 1862 showed so many to be missing. Being politically connected, he was found "not quilty," but socket bayonets were ordered in full after the verdict, arriving in June of 1863.

"California Joe's" NM1859 Rifle was a private purchase in 1861, BUT it was reworked with double set triggers and modified loading lever likely by regimental armorers sometime in the late winter or early spring of 1862 to match the "Berdan Contract" NM1859 Rifles (except for the sabre bayonet).

Curt

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Dan,

The soldier posing for the image was in uniform. It was the photo-bomber behind him that was wearing the shirt. I wish I had a copy of that image on hand in my files but I remember that the bayonets were closer to the length of saber bayonets.

[volcav]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

I'm glad I found this thread. I was having a similar conversation about this very topic yesterday. My question is this; other than grinding/filing is there another way to remove the import marks from a weapon? I'm not a gunsmith and my concern is that the marks look deep enough that removal by grinding or filing would leave noticeable indented flatspots on the barrel. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill or is there another way to remove the import marks?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Defarbing a Sharps Infantry Rifle?

Hallo!

" My question is this; other than grinding/filing is there another way to remove the import marks from a weapon? I'm not a gunsmith and my concern is that the marks look deep enough that removal by grinding or filing would leave noticeable indented flatspots on the barrel. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill or is there another way to remove the import marks?"

In brief and to over generalize...

Stampings are depressions in the metal. One can only fill them up to the level of the surrounding metal. Or remove the surrounding metal down the lowest depth of the stampings. For something like our guns, filling them up is not very feasible.

The bottom line is that it is best to pound them a bit to displace the metal back into the "hole" of the stamping made by displacing in the first place, and then remove the surorunding metal until all visual signs of the stamping is gone.

The DIFFERENCE between successfully doing that and having an invisible 'repair," lies in one's skills, abiities, and patience in being able to work the surrounding area as a whole rather than as just on the stamp. For a barrel that is round, that requires the "eye" and "hand" to progressively work a rounded surfaces with abrasives so that one is working all around and not just filing, grinding, sanding, or poish flat areas on a rounded surface.
(One visual is to think of the old fashioend "shoe shine" where the shoe shine boy works his polishing cloth up and down. A file is rolled over rather than drawn flat, beyond just the stamping, and the various strips of emory or sandpaper are used like a shoe shine boy working on a shoe- round and round, and up and down, rather than flatly back and forth in a straight line.)

Curt