John Henry Kurtz Auction

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Advocate of blue canteen covers,

You ain't alone there, Brian!

I agree with you on the jacket, canteens, and several other points! My Federal impression(s) will be undergoing some changes based on what I've been seeing.

[BenjaminLDavis]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Is it just me, or does that feller from the 15th Iowa bear a
more-than-passing resemblance to Holler?

[coastaltrash]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Hate to disappoint you Brian, but I lack the time to crawl through that entire listing to find what you're talking about. Wish I could drop a bank roll on it though!

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Hate to disappoint you Brian, but I lack the time to crawl through that entire listing to find what you're talking about. Wish I could drop a bank roll on it though!

See lot number 57508, JT Martin Jacket:

http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6015&Lot_No=57508

There's some interesting construction on the interior of that collar. It apears that the interior collar is simply folded to match the shape of the outer collar, rather than being cut from an identical pattern piece. Anyone else notice this?

[CompanyWag]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Now that you mention it, that is an interesting detail.

I just folded a piece of paper in half lengthwise and tucked in the end to match the angle of the collar. The result was a crease that matches the angled seam on each end of the inner collar with no apparent seam along any edge. Pretty neat detail. I wonder if the resulting seam was merely folded flat and sewn or was clipped to reduce bulk at the fold? I'd also like to peer into the worn hole on the edge to see the interfacing.

Paul McKee

[CompanyWag]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Arched type chevrons were not the only style chevrons that existed and yes there were blue canteen covers (and chains existed especially on NY Depot canteens). I think we should be careful on 'this side of the hobby' as we tend to latch on to certain things just like the majority of mainstream reenactors do with different pieces of equipment. Although arched chevrons, jean/satinette/blanket canteen covers, etc. are correct, we begin to follow only one line of thinking and ultimately over represent certain items. Just my opinion though.

I thoroughly agree with the above statement. However I should caution that just because a certain example appears in a well established collection, it does not neccesarily mean it is either a commonly used pattern or even an original example. Because someone has money and collecting connections doesn't guarantee a turd can't turn up among the roses. The first sergeant's chevrons may deserve a closer inspection.

Paul McKee

[August77]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

I thoroughly agree with the above statement. However I should caution that just because a certain example appears in a well established collection, it does not neccesarily mean it is either a commonly used pattern or even an original example. Because someone has money and collecting connections doesn't guarantee a turd can't turn up among the roses. The first sergeant's chevrons may deserve a closer inspection.

I completely agree! I guess I should have expanded in my post saying there is enough photographic evidence on top of a supposed original pair to show the use of 'straight' chevrons. Even without leaving the confines of that auction you have the CDV of Sgt. Bicknell (57661) and the tintype identified as Edwin Chamberlain (57685).

[GreencoatCross]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

John Wickett wins the prize. Does anyone have access to complete contract records for John T. Martin? Just how many of these infantry jackets were produced by his firm? One of my thoughts on this particular garment is that it was not intended to be an officer's garment but was instead an enlisted infantry jacket adapted for use by an officer (note the buttons).

It bears striking resemblance to the Schuylkill Arsenal infantry jacket but has some very noticeable differences. The cuffs appear to be non-functional and the buttonholes and buttons are simply for show (look real close in the photos and you will see this too, unless I'm going nuts). The lining looks like the silesia or alpaca that is used in uniform coats (not plain, striped, or plaid domet flannel as used at SA). Although we can't really tell with the photos, it appears to be machine sewn and lacks the extensive internal hand-sewing of an SA infantry jacket.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[CompanyWag]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

...One of my thoughts on this particular garment is that it was not intended to be an officer's garment but was instead an enlisted infantry jacket adapted for use by an officer (note the buttons)...

Absolutely. Officer's clothing would not show contractor or inspector marks unless it had been converted from enlisted clothing.

Paul McKee

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

My initial interpretation of the inner collar is that it was pieced by hand, and we're looking at the seam of where that occurred. I hope that this jacket will be on display at the auction and that we'll get some answers.

The second internal pocket is interesting. There looks to be a good amount of hand-work, such as on the pockets and the attachment of the lining and the bottom facings. The breast quilting also appears to be L-shaped and machined, as opposed to the SA's straight-and-handsewn.

[CompanyWag]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

My initial interpretation of the inner collar is that it was pieced by hand, and we're looking at the seam of where that occurred. I hope that this jacket will be on display at the auction and that we'll get some answers.

That was initially my thought as well, but a closer look at the inside view of the collar (near the center where the wear/moth hole is), the collar edge is flattened out and apparently shows no seam or even top stitching. If true, this is an interesting labor-saving detail as used by the Martin firm.

Paul McKee

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

John Wickett wins the prize.

Great! What did I win??? :D I have a great idea for a prize!! :wink_smil
(Where's Don Pardo when you need him!)

On the coat:
My initial thought when I saw this detail was that it was a labor-saving measure. I don't think it is piecing because it would be a small triangular piece at each end of the collar... yet, if you follow the diagonal seam, it doesn't go all-the-way to the corner of the collar piece. If it were pieced, it would go all-the-way.

Also, collars are pretty small pieces, so it shouldn't be that hard to find a scrap large enough to make a collar piece. I would find it hard to imagine a seamster/seamstress making the effort.

It appears to me that two pieces, perhaps even simple rectangles, were joined together, forming a center seam, then placed right-sides-together with the outer collar. Then, they were (perhaps) turned inside (at which point the fold would have been formed) and stitched down as we see it today. I would imagine that excess material was probably trimmed away from the seam allowance before setting the lining.

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

I follow ya. Still, seems like that would be an awful lot of bulk, as that would amount to four layers of wool at the front of the collar. That would also preclude the inclusion of an in-the-seam hook-and-eye collar closure, assuming this jacket or any of its siblings were ideally meant to have one. In the blown-up view of the jacket front, I feel like I'm looking at a barely discernible seam at the top of the collar, visible most before it curves around toward the back, keeping with the usual outer collar folded down at the edges, and a raw inner collar attached around the edges often encountered on these. (Photos attached of the Byam jacket of probable SA manufacture.)

The photos in the auction gallery are great for their size, but frustrating because they're not really "high-res." Hard to tell what's actually part of a garment, and what's a line of pixels.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

I follow ya. Still, seems like that would be an awful lot of bulk, as that would amount to four layers of wool at the front of the collar.

Very true. Perhaps the folded section was sewn together and clipped like a dart. I think only a hands-on examination would be able to show for sure. I'd love to get my hands on it, even for only a few minutes!!! If anyone has a chance to examine it at the auction, I (and many other, I'm sure) would love to hear any observations on this feature!

Nomatter how that collar was put together, that is one interesting jacket!!!

[LeatherHead]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

I was able to examine John Henry's J.T. Martin infantry jacket maybe 5 years ago. From memory, it was identified to a Union light artillery enlisted man whose name I have written down somewhere. With the jacket laid out right in front of you, it is quite evident that the JTM product was altered in its time of use at the cuffs, the lining and the collar. The wool of the body has lost its knap from wear and in person now almost looks like gaberdene. The small eagle staff buttons were not the 1st set on the coat but appear to have been on it during its use.

The JTM cuff featured working pairs of button holes and typical openable slit. The modification sewed the slit closed, "blinded" the button hole (I think) and re-sewed the now-non-functioning buttons at the end of the original button hole.

The JTM collar was opened at the top seam by cutting & removing stitching for most of its length, possibly to remove JTM stiffening. That seam was simply pinched shut and, I recall, overcast stitched to close it.

The jacket retained most of its JTM lining, but received another full lining of the fabric that lines most regulation Union enlisted uniform coats; sometimes that (now) black/green fine twilled cloth is called "alpaca" and is thought to be a wool/silk mixture. The front panels of that added lining were padded and the presence of the JTM lining and 2nd lining made for a heavy garment, quite bulky-looking. The 2nd lining featured extra pocket(s).

Some of the JTM-machined long seams gave out under use and were repaired from the outside by hand overcast stitches.

That's what I recall from my time with it, to reduce the speculation a bit.....

yours in the hobby....

Dean Nelson
1st MD Infantry, CSA; N-SSA