Parker Hale Serial Number location

[mtodriscoll]

I purchased a used PH 1853 Enfield at a gunshow in the D.C. area a couple of weeks ago. I'm trying to determine age and record info on the rifle for records keeping. Where is the serial number located?

I removed the barrel, and here are the markings I can see stamped on the barrel:
Location_________________Stamp
Top of barrel________________"Parker-Hale Ltd. Birmingham England"
Top/Left side, breech area____"1841"
Bottom_____________________Crown symbol and "BP"
Bottom_____________________"31/2 Drams Black Powder"
Bottom_____________________"577 536 GRs Bullet"
Bottom_____________________Circle symbol divided in thirds with "A", "B" and "5" each in one thrid.

Is the serial number the "1841" on the left of the barrel on the breech end?

Thanks,
Matt O'Driscoll
1st Reg. KY Volunteers, Co. E

[fahnenschmied]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

Yes, the 1841 is your serial number, on the left side of the breech. Sounds like you got a good English made one, must be from the late seventies, early eighties or so.

Dave Stone

[lthull3rdla]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

My PH P.53 is S/N 5455 and I bought it brand new in 1978

Ronnie - Shreveport

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

Hallo!

I don't remember the serial number range anymore, but teh first "batch" of Parker-Hale Rifle-Muskets (the Musketoon came out iin 1974, I think the Rifles in 1976, and the RM's in 1978 [?)] were a wee bit controversial due to two problems that were resolved:

1. Gas leaks from the breech block burning the stock in the lock mortice.

2. The two piece stocks appeared to be the Rifle length stock with a longer forearm spliced on and the joint concelaed by the barrel band.

I also do not remember whether these were recalled and replaced with a corrected version, or whether PH corected the problem in the next batch on out.

Curt

[Jimmayo]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

My PH SN 41** has the two piece stock.

[erik]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

My PH 3 band was part of a bulk purchase in 1977. 30 3 bands a 1 Naval rifle.
I paid for one 3 band and the naval.
The 3 band was the pick of the litter being a tiger stripe stock, Ser. #3759.
A pretty piece that I still have.
The Naval Rifle was a crack shooter but has since moved on (regrets).
The Regiment still owns 27 servicable PHs.
Erik Simundson

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

Yes, the left side of the chamber would be the correct place for the serial number, 1841 in your case!

I bought my PH used last year, the serial number is 1011 and is not safe to shoot. It was bought from a prop gun auction in CA. The screw that holds the rear sight was bored thru the top of the barrel into the chamber. This was discovered by Todd Watts as he was defarbing it. So it has been regulated to blanks only. I'll probably end up buying an after market barrel from Hoyt or Whitacre for it. I'd like to hunt with it.

BTW it also has the 2 piece stock. See Massive Todd Watts Enfield Defarb!!! for some pics of it.

[fahnenschmied]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

My p53, serial number 65**, purchased new in 1987, has a one piece stock of a vivildy patterned, almost checkerboard looking walnut.
I have never had the rear sight base off it though. Hope there isn't a hole thru the barrel there...

[Todd Watts]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

The older P-H rear sights seem to be correctly brazed on so the only screw is the leaf spring's retaining screw. I discovered the hole in question while the barrel was in the boiling water tanks as I was bluing it. When I removed the barrel I saw the common spray of water from the vent but there was water running down the barrel as well that did not appear normal. After a couple of more baths I realized there was a tiny hole not much larger than a pin-hole in the base of the sight's hole.

With black powder pressures that is "probably" safe so long as the screw is tightly snugged. Often times for instance shotgun sights are through-hole screwed. BUT, one never can really know. A gun is in actuality a mono-directional explossive device and high-pressure gasses always seek a path of least resistance. The hole can be repaired by filling and welding it over.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

Hallo!

To look at it differently...

A screw in the barrel is not entirely "unknown." Various rifle-muskets, rifled-muskets, and carbines have one- the bolster clean-out screw.

IMHO, the pressures generated by blank loads in a relatively clean barrel should be "safe enough." But I would have the hole sealed. (Not quite so much for the curent owner, but somewhere down the path in the Future the gun may change hands to a "live shooter." One the one hand, if the "hole" is threaded properly and the pitch of the screw sufficient, it "should" hold for live fire. But on the other hand...)

Curt

[Todd Watts]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

You know, all of our muskets already have a non-threaded hole through which high-pressure gasses are more likely to escapre than through a small screw hole. The vent (barrel through nipple) is only "sealed" by the pressure of the hammer nose covering or just partially-covering the spent cap. I have on numerous occasions seen a hammer blown back to 1/2 cock from this reverse venting under a powerful charge pushing a projectile. That problem is even more likely to happen when someone drills-out their cone/nipple to make a vent channel you could pass a campfire through.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

Hallo!

Just as an aside...

In my N-SSA daze, I had two friends "shot" by the clean-out screw on Mike Yeck Smith carbines by the lads next to them in line. One was enough to break the skin causing minor bleeding of his chest. The other penetrated his upper arm muscle requiring treatment.
IMHO, gas pressure will seek the path of least resistance at the moment.
It was suspected that the weak threads of the bolster were the "weakest point" and not the cone's vent.

Curt

[Todd Watts]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

Sounds like worn out screw threads on those. That is something to consider if your clean-out screw is overly easily removed. They ought to be good and snug. If they are really floppy when only 1/2 way screwed in, the screw should be replaced. Or, if it is o.k. then the hole should be over-reamed and retapped for a larger screw shank. The new screw will likely have to be obtained through a machine shop or someplace like that to get the correct size with a flat slot. A trick I have learned is that the nose cap screws on the Enfields fits the Springfields' clean-out hole very tightly. The thread pitch is not exact so there is a little cross-threading going on and you have to cut the screw back about 1/2 way as well as file the head diameter a little for it to snug right, but it works. (Use the information wisely, Grasshopper.);)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

Hallo!

Many lads did not bother, but had the clean-out screw hole permanently welded closed, and a dummy screw head affixed for cosmetic appearances.

Curt

[Todd Watts]

Re: Parker Hale Serial Number location

Yes, and their guns were effectively shut-down permantently after a few events. The 1861 US model has a true 90 degree left turn vent so that when it fouls you cannot effectively clean it unless you can go straight at it through the clean-out screw hole. A pipe cleaner can't make that bend and few tools except some dental picks are strong and small enough to chip the fouling cake out from the nipple hole. That is the 1861's main failing IMHO. While a good idea in theory to have a clean out screw, the design also lends itself to a lot more misfires than the 1863 or Enfields that have a 45 or so degree angled vent that can be easily cleaned from above.