Cravats: How Common

[Cpl. Ehrman]

Comrades,

I'm really making an effort to improve my Confederate infantry impression for next season and one of the things I was looking into was the cravat. I've seen a few here and there and they add a nice touch to a uniform, but exactly how common were cravats to the common infantry soldier?
I'm sure there were some early war outfits that had men wearing cravats in the ranks, but were they really as 'loud' and grand as some that can be seen around reenactors necks?
Really, I want to know what kind of cravat, if any, would have been worn by Confed Inf (more specifically TN, mid-war). Any help, guidance or documentation would be much appreciated.

Tom Ehrman

[Guy Gane III]

Re: Cravats: How Common

I would have to go with uncommon.

...that is, unless you are a dandy!

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Hi,

I think that it would come down to the impression. If you were doing Missouri State Guard (or other State Guard Impression), I would think that these would be fairly common. Because these men were basically civilians that were armed. But the average Confederate soldier, I do not think put a whole lot time in looking nice, and wearing a cravat. Just my 2 cents.

[CJDaley]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Some Civil War etiquette guides claim a gentleman should have 4 dozen cravats.

1 dozen white
1 dozen black
2 dozen of various colors, patterns and stripes.

If you were to buy these from an authentic vendor this would run you $2,160.00 (plus postage) :)

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Some Civil War etiquette guides claim a gentleman should have 4 dozen cravats.

1 dozen white
1 dozen black
2 dozen of various colors, patterns and stripes.

If you were to buy these from an authentic vendor this would run you $2,160.00 (plus postage) :)

Are you going to offer a Bully Buy for four dozen, Chris? :tounge_sm

[kazrosiecki]

Re: Cravats: How Common

What has made you believe it is necessary to wear a cravat with your C.S.A. impression? Or, why are you connecting the two? Is it from the many photos of authentic's at events sporting the cravat? If so, that makes enough sense to me.

Look through photos of Confederates and draw your own conclusions. I have my own, though I do not have any written documentation pertaining to soldiers and cravats. I just have the photos I have viewed. When looking over the photos, take into account things like unit, setting, any info on the individual, time and anything else you can think of.

If you were doing Missouri State Guard (or other State Guard Impression), I would think that these would be fairly common. Because these men were basically civilians that were armed.

Again, I don't have many/excellent sources and I'm no expert, but I am not sure about this statement. Civil War soldiers were people, the same as us. I would not be wearing a cravat/tie when I am doing work, lounging around or what have you in warm or cold weather (cravats can't offer that much protection from cold, or can they?). Would the real guys? I just can't see it.

The cravat has become the next cool thing to sport at events (in my opinion) and I just don't get it. All too often people copy other reenactors instead of original photos. But, you do whatever it is that makes you happy and look cool/popular.

Again, my own observations. Just look at original pictures, taking into account some of the ideas mentioned above, and try and copy the ORIGINAL photo.

[ohpkirk]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Hi,

I think that it would come down to the impression. If you were doing Missouri State Guard (or other State Guard Impression), I would think that these would be fairly common. Because these men were basically civilians that were armed.

Less than one quarter of these Missourian Confederate sympathizers in 1862 are wearing cravats. (first attached photo)

The usage of a cravat would not be appropriate for a soldier on campaign. I have not come across any accounts of soldiers during the war concerning cravats. However, in the Trans-Mississippi theatre the usage of the string tie shows up more often in surviving photographs than a cravat does. (see other attachments) Does this mean that the string tie was more prevalent over the cravat or other neckwear? No, it just means that among surviving photographic evidence it is more common.

The third photo shows some of Hindman's Arkansawyer's with two in a cravat and one with a string tie.

Cravats, as well as severly cocked hats have become the trademarks of a hardkewl reenactor in the field....

[CJDaley]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Are you going to offer a Bully Buy for four dozen, Chris? :tounge_sm

Yeah, but delivery would be after the 150th Anniversary cycle. :tounge_sm



BTW: Page Lapham was killed wearing a pleated front shirt...is it so unrealistic to imagine a private in the ranks wearing a cravat or a tie on campaign or in a battle?

[Mcguire]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Keep in mind that images of soldiers sporting cravats were taken in a studio and they probably wanted to look as refined or dapper as they could. I don't think there is alot of validity in making a correlation to studio created images and the reality of the field or campaign conditions concerning their use.

[ohpkirk]

Re: Cravats: How Common

BTW: Page Lapham was killed wearing a pleated front shirt...is it so unrealistic to imagine a private in the ranks wearing a cravat or a tie on campaign or in a battle?

I believe that Page Lapham was also from a well-to-do N.O. family and serving in an artillery company with tailor made uniforms. While a pleated shirt would be a totally different matter as it did not have to be tied on a daily basis as well as it just being a shirt.

Attached is a photo of Big Foot Wallace wearing a dirty pleated shirt, cravat, and overshirt. While he was not a soldier on campaign, it shows a pleated shirt in a very dingy state. Also in the photo of the Confederate prisoners in Chicago it shows a variation of the vertical pleated shirt with one of the soldiers (to the right side of the photo) wearing a horizontally pleated shirt. This photo shows only one of the soldiers with a cravat, being that they are wearing what they were captured in it shows that a cravat or two may have been present in the ranks, but by no means were they as common as they are in the modern ranks.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Cravats: How Common

(cravats can't offer that much protection from cold, or can they?)

Casimer Rosiecki


Hi,

Actually, I was surprized to find that they can. Last weekend at ,Prairie Grove, I was wearing a tie, and I found that it kept my neck very warm. In summer, I find the tie/cravat holds the collar of my shirt up high on my neck. Keep the wool jean collar from scratching my neck. But again, soldiers on most campaigns, I do not think, wore cravats. About the State Guard, I was not saying everyone one would be wearing a cravat, but compared to other impressions.

Andrew

[Jon The Beloved]

Re: Cravats: How Common

I will be looking for documentation and I hesitate to post this without but I wanted to add the points that perhaps for parade dress.. parade march.. grand reviews.. religious services.. dances.. and for grandios battles in which the soldier felt he would meet a sure fate (much like that famed battleshirt).. the soldiers may have chosen to pull out the old cravat or string tie.

So that being said.. very doubtful on the march.. around camp.. while at work.. and during impromtu battles and surprise skirmishes.

Just a thought.

I am, also, interested in whether or not it was popular or even appropriate in the Army of Tennessee outside the dandys and city boys in the early period of war. Anybody have ready documentation? Don't know why there would have been being it such a non-issue and with limited photo documentation.

I digress..

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Cravats: How Common

I believe that Page Lapham was also from a well-to-do N.O. family and serving in an artillery company with tailor made uniforms. While a pleated shirt would be a totally different matter as it did not have to be tied on a daily basis as well as it just being a shirt.

Not sure about his family standing, but Page Lapham was from Danville, VA...yet enlisted in the Washington Artillery of New Orleans (late war)...think this occured while he was in Richmond City, VA. He was not himself from New Orleans, Louisiana...although the unit he enlisted with was.

I believe the Museum of the Confederacy, who has his shoes and pieces of his uniform, have it documented that men in the unit gave Lapham his uniform...which had belonged to someone else...therefore his uniform WAS NOT TAILORED TO HIS FORM.

As others have mentioned the debate about the cravat/tie, cannot be proved disproved without first-hand written accounts from the real soldiers themselves.

As it's pretty obvious, that this was not an issued item...all accounts must be settled on primary documentation. That said...what do the "in the field" images show? There were a few well-known Fredericksburg images floating around on the forum...do any of the men sitting/standing on the old trestle have any cravats on?

Paul B.

[CJDaley]

Re: Cravats: How Common

I believe that Page Lapham was also from a well-to-do N.O. family and serving in an artillery company with tailor made uniforms. While a pleated shirt would be a totally different matter as it did not have to be tied on a daily basis as well as it just being a shirt. .

Great points Cody.

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Interesting discussion. I have always thought that the soldier in the foreground of this '64 Spotsylvania image appeared to be wearing a cravat.