Cravats: How Common

[coastaltrash]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Paul when Cody says tailor made he does not refer to fit but rather material and quality of construction. That would mean the uniform made was originally non depot issue making it tailor made or custom or private manufacture.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Laphams of Pittsylvania County

The 1860 census says:

B.B. Lapham, age 55, male, was a dentist worth $2500 in real estate and $1000 in personal estate. He was originally from New York.
His wife, Mary F. Lapham, age 38, a native Virginian.

They had three children:

Middleton P. (i.e., Page Lapham), who was 14 and had attended school within the past year.
Flora J., who was 8 years old and had attended school within the past year
Annie F., age 1.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Paul when Cody says tailor made he does not refer to fit but rather material and quality of construction. That would mean the uniform made was originally non depot issue making it tailor made or custom or private manufacture.

I believe that Page Lapham was also from a well-to-do N.O. family and serving in an artillery company with tailor made uniforms. While a pleated shirt would be a totally different matter as it did not have to be tied on a daily basis as well as it just being a shirt.

Well I can't interpret what Cody meant by this statement...I was only providing the little bit of insight I had, that M. Page Lapham was not a native of New Orleans...as he was in fact a Virginian (from Danville, Virginia), and that the uniform he was wearing (at least his jacket), was in fact made for someone else...and passed onto him.

The MoC publication, A Catalog of Uniforms in the Collection of the Museum of the Confederacy, has the following information:

Private M. Page Lapham (~1864)
Jacket:single breasted, 8 button front cadet gray wool kersey cloth piping on collar and cuffs, no facings, unbleached cotton osnanburg lining in body and sleeves; Louisiana state buttons with backmarks: Hyde & Goodrich/New Orleans.
Trousers:dark cadet gray wool kersey cloth with red wool broadcloth piping down outer leg seam, inner facings and pockets are off-white canvas, black bone buttons.
Vest (military):cadet gray wool cloth, back panel and lining are off-white cotton osnanburg, small Federal staff buttons with backmark: Superior/Quality.
Vest (civilian):black velvet collar, back panel is brown silesia, inner lining is white silesia, small black fabric~covered buttons.
Vest:brown silk, with a brown polished cotton back, white cotton lining, small fabric covered buttons.
Shirt:white cotton cloth with pleated front, turndown collar, four button holes, white glass buttons.

One of the most complete enlisted Confederate uniforms known to exist, Lapham's is typical of his unit, but not government issue. An identical jacket from the Washington Artillery is in a collection in New Orleans. The Washington Artillery rarely drew clothing from the government; instead, the men paid for their own uniforms. This jacket has the name "T.H. Fuqua/WA," in the lining, indicating that Thomas H. Fuqua, the sergeant of Lapham's company, owned it before Lapham. A native of Danville, Virginia, Lapham joined the Second Company of famed Washington Artillery of New Orleans in Virginia. He was wounded at Drewry's Bluff, Virginia, on May 14, 1864 and died at Chimborazo Hospital, Richmond, Virginia, on May 23, 1864.

Thanks Emmanuel, for posting the Census information on the Lapham family.

Paul B.

[coastaltrash]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Paul,
While Cody may not know the demographics of the soldier who had the jacket on, his comment about the coat was spot on, it was tailor made, that was the point I was attempting to clarify.

[ohpkirk]

Re: Cravats: How Common

I apologize for bringing this thread off topic. I know nothing about Page Lapham other than he was in the Washington Artillery, a unit from New Orleans and composed of the upper crust of the Crescent City.

Thank you Mr. Dabney for the census info.

Back to cravat discussion if ya'll don't mind.

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Greetings,
For wearing a cravat while portraying an uniformed military impression on campaign, I agree with Cassimer and would recommend consulting extant military photos of fellows in the field. A photographic study broken down by regiment, campaign, which year of the conflict, and etc. would make for an interesting research article.

For a civilian impression or a military organization of fellows dressed in citizen clothes, then cravats would be incredibly common. During the middle part of the nineteenth century cravats were worn often by laborers in the agricultural and trade industries. This is supported by genre paintings, occupational photographs, illustrations, and a number of other primary sources. When I worked in the open air museum field, I frequently wore a cravat while engaged in farm labor (hoeing corn, plowing, scythe work, and etc.) and trade work, finding it to not be an issue, except in the hottest of weather.

On another note, in this thread the topic of pleated shirts came up. These garments were some of the most common civilian shirts of the middle part of the nineteenth century. I wouldn't make any conclusions about an individual's socio-economic status or whether they were a "dandy" by the wearing of this type of garment alone. In fact, I think they are seriously under represented among Civil War interpreters portraying civilians.

Darrek Orwig

[erik]

Re: Cravats: How Common

I ,would suggest that cravats would perhaps be an officer style and perhaps worn by certain dandies not a usal acccotrement and even frowned upon by many workman like officers.
As an officer one must look ones best so a cravat is required. Try tying one in the dark while the long roll sounds. It gives new meaning to focus.

Erik Simundson

[Cpl. Ehrman]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Thank you all for your input, I really do much apprciate it. I will, as many of you have suggested, take a look through some legit photos and draw a conclusion has to whether or not I should include a cravat (or perhaps some other form of neck tie) to my impression. Thank you all once again.

Tom Ehrman

[MickCole]

Re: Cravats: How Common

The vast majority of soldiers were citizen soldiiers, and as such would have been quite accustomed to wearing cravats on all occasions. As already pointed pointed out, cravats do serve a utilitarian function, other than merely allowing one to feel well-dressed. Namely, a bit of extra warmth in the winter and protection from chafing in the summer. The Spotsylvania photo and other photos in this thread provide at a minimum that the wearing of a cravat is not so unusual that it should be considered wrong to wear one. The same photos show that it would be wrong to require the wearing of one. While I hardly consider myself a dandy, when portraying a mid-nineteenth person, whether soldier or citizen, I wear a cravat, based largely on the many mid-nineteenth century photos I have seen.
Mick Cole
37th VA Co. E

[sthabig]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Perhaps I read too quickly but I did not see at any point where someone presented the sources for their conclusions. A lot of speculation and personal opinion, little documented evidence. Does anyone happen to have reading material that discusses the wearing and usage of cravats? I read a couple of guys mentioning it was quite common for civilians and hope they can provide the source (for my own research). Another thing, I would appreciate any documented Federal cravat usage that one may have.

Many thanks,

Tyler Habig

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Tyler,
I dropped you a PM.

Darrek Orwig

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Hallo!

Moderator hat off...

Yes, the CW era farmers hereabouts always wore their cravats when milking the cows, slopping the hogs, and plowing the fields- just as modern farmers always wear their neck ties.

Moderator hat on...

This thread is below AC Forum standards with a great deal of opinion and a great scarcity of research and documentation other than some Period photographs of lads wearing cravats where we do not know the intent or context of the image taking or studio image sitting.

Curt

[kazrosiecki]

Re: Cravats: How Common

My only documentation is photos, which is not a bad guide. A cravat would have been a common item to people and therefore, would the soldiers really say much about them? Requesting one be sent from home or purchasing one them self may have happened and therefore, you would need to read through diaries written by soldiers. There just might be something out there but I have photos, so it is the photos that I follow.

If nobody has any good written documentation, just photos (and not every person is wearing a cravat in those pics, only a minority), then it is okay for the majority of reenactors at events to wear cravats. I guess that makes sense?

Edit: Thought I should mention that I was referring to photos of men in the field wearing a small number of cravats, not in portraits.

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Cravats: How Common

Here is another image of a dead Confederate soldier wearing what appears to me to be a cravat. While I haven't yet convinced myself of the appropriateness or inappropriateness of reenactors wearing cravats, death photos certainly are a logical resource for determining the appearance of actual CW soldiers in the field. I am curious if others, whose eyes maybe sharper than mine, feel that the soldiers in this image and the one in the Spotsylvania image I posted previously, are in fact wearing cravats. If so, while it certainly doesn't answer the question of how common it might have been for a soldier to be wearing a cravat in the field, it at least starts to build a case, based on primary source materials, that in fact some soldiers were certainly wearing them into battle.

[ohpkirk]

Re: Cravats: How Common

That appears to be a strap to my eyes and not a cravat. Or I may be looking at the wrong thing in the photo. The only other item in the photograph that is in the vicinity of where a cravat may be is his collar.