Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

[44 Henry]

Re: Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

There is a copy of the Manual of Arms for the Spencer Rifle located in the Marcot book. 23 pages of the manual of arms are copied in the book. Also there are detailed pictures of different types of ammunition as well as boxes. I used an original Spencer Rifle for several years reenacting in the 1980 as well as a Spencer Carbine. I also loaded my own blanks and used the S&S upper block for center fire conversion. The Spencer can be a lot of fun. Also keep in mind that there were about the same number of Spencer rifles as there were Henry rifles used in the war. Spencer rifles number about 12,500 ever made with around 10,000 used in the war. There were around 14,000 Henry rifles made and about 10,000 used in the war.
Andrew L. Bresnan
National Henry Rifle Company
7th Illinois Veteran Volunteer Infantry
66th Illinois Infantry WSS
ICSS

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

I have a couple points I have been pondering on- would a soldier have gotten rid of his cap pouch after getting his Spencer, since he would not need it for firing? Or would he have kept it so he would not have been charged with losing it?

How or what would he haved carried to clean the Spencer- such as the barrel with no ramrod. Would one have gotten a seperate cleaning kit for that time, or did they Spencer come with such implements

Does anyone have a copy of the image of 7th Ohio sharpshooter? I have been searching with no luck.

Are there any good technical, type manuals or reference books on the Spencer?

Sorry for the bombardment of questions, I have been striking out trying to find research materials.

All the best.

Returns of the 75th Ohio Volunteer Infantry from 1864 showed that after one company was armed with Spencers and turned into mounted infantry in Florida, they turned in their Enfield rifles, cap pouches, and cartridge boxes to be redistributed to the remaining companies in the regiment who were not mounted. There is no mention found of receiving new accoutrements, so there must be some more paperwork out there to be discovered regarding the issuance of new boxes and other accoutrements.

[thad gallagher]

Re: Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

Thank you all, for your guidance and information. Looks like I will be adding to the library.

I did find this manual of arms online, can anyone tell if it is the same one from the Marcot book?

http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/7475/spencermoa.html

While perusing around I also found this at the Blockade Runner site. You have to scroll down a bit, Spencer Repeating Rifle Hand Book. It says it is a manual they made on the Spencer. Has anyone read it, and is it worth getting?

http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg9.htm

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

Hallo!

Thanks Herr Brian for the image!

I, of all people, should have had one on file to share. ;) :)

Contracts for Spencer rifles typically include language about the "usual appendages" or "regular appendages," or "appendages."
Details are skimpy at best.

However the December 25,1862 Navy letter of inspection from Captain Jonathan Chauncey was more specific:

"They have been packed in boxes of 10 each, with all the accompanying implements, such as bayonets, brushes, cleaning rods and screwdrivers, and are ready for delivery."

The initial delivery included "120 cartridge cases (leather) at $.75 each." and '20 cartridge cases (leather) at $.75 each."

These were at the rate of one box per rifle.

"Spencer" boxes are fuzzy in bistory and rare. A few boxes (aka pouches)are "known" that contain a tin that holds six 7 round packets of Spencer ammo for a total of 42. Others are known with the tin being divided down the middle to separate the six into two sets of three. At any rate, they are believed to be "Spencer" boxes because the measurements of the two belt loop box corresponds to the dimensions of a a full box of SPencer cartridges.
The boxes for the Navy Spencer contract were provided by Spencer not made by them.

And then there are the .58 style boxes believed to have had wooden blocks instead of tins- much the way the "Spencer" cavalry box was made.

Curt

[Will Eichler]

Re: Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

Thad,

In response to your question about the Spencer book. A friend acquired a copy of it for me from another seller. Much of the book was filled with period propaganda from Spencer in the form of letters form officers and government officials praising the weapons.

That said, in the vein of figuring out how these things were care for in the field, I only found one small bit of use. In the back of the book was list of parts and appendages for the Spencer. On the list (dead last) were the Brush and Thong (listed separately and then joined in pricing - .56 cents for the Infantry Rifle) and the screwdriver (.21 for the Infantry Rifle). That seems to be all the care items Spencer shipped.

I did find a Spencer screwdriver on Dixie's Website but have not personal knowledge of the correctness of this item. I have no idea what the brush and thong looked like or where to go to get one. (MODS - feel free to pull the one sentence if it goes too close to recommending a vendor not on the approved list!)

Anyone have any more reserach on this? I haven't sprung the $70 or so for the Marcott book yet. Want to pay for the rifle first!

Best to all,

Will

[Spencer Guy]

Re: Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

Will
Perhaps the brush and thong that is mentioned in Marcot’s book is a predecessor to today’s boar snake tool. It is a simple enough arrangement with a brush on the end with a pull through string and a tail of weaved cloth. This could easily be something someone thought up in the 1860’s.
Terry

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

Hallo!

The info on Spencer "tools" is somewhat vague due the period practice of listing these things as "appendages."

It is generally believed that the "bore brush" or "brush and thong" as a field expedient issued as appendages for the rifles and carbines (versus, in theory, a cleaning rod for garrison). Years ago, Dixie sold these as well, but they have become pricey and collectors' items lately.

Here is a Spencer screwdriver tool. They are also similar to one of the styles of Remington tools, except the Remington tool end is not as radiused (round).



Curt

[Mike Nickerson]

Re: Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

Bump for discussion

Mike Nickerson

[oldrebel]

Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

How do you crimp the ends of the 44 mag casings to make the blanks for the Henry ? I guess this would also work fort the Henry in 44-40 ?

[44 Henry]

Re: Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

Unless the Henry rifle is modified to take shorter rounds the .44-40 casing will not work as they are too short and will not feed through the action. The next round in the magazine will jam the carrier. With a modified Henry rifle shorter rounds can be used for blanks, in fact they are closer to to the correct size of a .44 Henry rimfire in length and you will be able to get 15 or 16 in the magazine depending on how much the crimp is. The other great advantae is that you will be able to make your own blanks for around $25 per 100 instead of $60 per 100 plus postage bringing the total to over $65 per 100, a $40 savings is a big deal to me. The reloaded rounds sound much better than the Swanson blanks I have heard as they are way too loud for what a Civil War Henry would have sounded like, in other words the Swanson blanks do not sound authentic. A Henry cartridge was only loaded with 26 to 28 grains of bp.

http://44henryrifle.webs.com/

Victory thru rapid fire,
Andrew L. Bresnan
National Henry Rifle Company