Cartridge Box Recommendation

[The Wizard]

Please recommendation sources for the best quality, most authentic .58 caliber cartridge box and revolver .44 caliber and .36 caliber cartridge boxes. Thank you.

[-Jesse-]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

This is as close as you can get to "most authenic" in my opinion. http://www.ejtmercantile.com/index.html

Just look at the Approved Vendors,you cant really go wrong....

[Illinois Rebel]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

Chris Schreiber...hands down. It's worth it's weight in Gold...If you can find a set. Chris is no longer with us.

http://www.3rdalabama.org/chris.htm

Respectfully,

Michael Collins

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

Hallo!

Herr Douglas, welcome to the AC Forum!

Questions about "who makes the best X" are discouraged on the AC Forum, as the Gold Standard is not so much "who makes" but rather how a maker's or vendor's work compares to original items in terms of:

1. The use of Period raw materials
2. The use of Period patterns, models, or forms
3. The use of Period methods of manufacturing, construction, or production

Those that do a better job of nailing down those three in relationship to original items (when new) are "the best."
Makers and vendors on the AC Approved Vendor list have earned a reputation for striving toward meeting all three.

At best, the question and discussion could be how one maker achieves "more" in relation to another, and why.

At its worst, "who makes the best widget" can be Flame Bait posted by a troll.

In the middle are the sharing of opinions, some more sound and grounded than others, based upon their likes and dislikes, or such unrelated modern things such as cost, or the time waiting for an item to be made, or the access and communication with the maker, etc., etc.

Curt

[CompanyWag]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

At least Douglas is asking the question here, or hopefully asking members of his unit as well, rather than strolling down sutler's row and sorting it out solo and making a decision based on a vendor's sales pitch.

The recommended vendors list is a good place to start.

Paul McKee

[The Wizard]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

I am not really into Civil War reactment BUT I am into military small arms and their associated equipment. I have a what is termed a first generation Parker-Hale 1853 Three Band Rifle-Musket and thought it would be cool to have a "cartridge box" to go with it. I want the quality to match that of the rifle. Doesn't anyone recommend things anymore. Just if one of you asked me to recommend a car mechanic I would say try the Auto Barn, they have done good work for me in the past why can't someone say try Jeff Davis Enterprises they make a really good product. Yeah, I could search the web but in cases like this I use a modification of Engineering Princple 1 - Do not reinvent the wheel!

Oh, by the way I am also looking for a cartridge box (not a cap pouch, got one of those) to with my second generation Colt 1860 .44 revolver.

As my dad told me buy the best. And if you can't afford the best save your money until you can!

[Secechsoldier]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

Very Right on EJ Thomas!

Bill's Leather is top shelf, and of the high quilty to.

I have a few belts made by him along with a Cart-Box 58 Cal.

You can take a look at his website and read the period works of the leather and thread!(:

Also : Almost forgot my good friend ( Brad Molone ) as very top notch leather gear !!! You can find some of his old postings on here and take a look at some of his stuff.

and last but not least is Don Smith (:

I have seen many items Don has made, his leather goods are very top shelf also! any of these vendors are good to go!

Well Thats my 2 bits worth.

___________________
Thanks

Wes J. Verbal
50Th Va. Inf. Co. H. (ANV)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

Hallo!

I will try again... :)

"Doesn't anyone recommend things anymore"

That is what the AC Approved Vendor List attempts to do.

However, Approved Vendors meet or exceed a minimum acceptable level of the "Gold Standard" of how a maker's or vendor's work compares to original items in terms of:

1. The use of Period raw materials
2. The use of Period patterns, models, or forms
3. The use of Period methods of manufacturing, construction, or production.

Because we all come to the table, and a public forum with different and differing knowledge, experience, exposure and access to original items, there is "differing" of opinions, some more sound and grounded than others, based upon likes and dislikes, or such unrelated modern things such as cost, or the time waiting for an item to be made, or the access and communication with the maker, etc., etc.

As a result, some of us may prefer Schreiber, Smith, or Duvall, or Welch, or Serio, or that New Jersey fellow, and other talented individuals choosing not to participate in the Approved Vendor program, etc., etc.

IMHO, the analogy of recommending a car mechanic does not fit the living history world.
The "best" they do is use factory parts and have the knowledge and skill to make proper repairs without gouging the customer, etc.
Now, if say, one needed a custom-built copy of say a 1969 Ford Mustang Boss 302 engine then the factors would be:

still, the "Gold Standard" of how that work compares to the original engine in terms of:

1. The use of Period raw materials
2. The use of Period patterns, models, or forms
3. The use of Period methods of manufacturing, construction, or production.

Asking which of these talented individuals "makes the best" is a more detailed discussion as to how on the Slding Scale of Imperfection a Schreiber, Smith, or Duvall, or Welch, or Serio, or that New Jersey fellow, or other talented individuals choosing not to participate in the Approved Vendor program nail the Gold Standard when the originals are compared to the reproductions.

How does, and why does, the work of a Schreiber, Smith, or Duvall, or Welch, or Serio, or that New Jersey fellow, or other talented individuals choosing not to participate in the Approved Vendor program nail the Gold Standard when the originals are compared to the reproductions?
Not "Who makes the best..."

It is the standard, culture, and policy of the AC Forum to ask that question, not "who makes the best?"
It is not about "who makes the best," it is about how and why it is the "best."

For example, IMHO, no maker makes Period leather accoutrements that use the actual thicknesses and weights of Civil War era tannage because... that process is of tanning is no longer used and that "authentic" or "best" leather are not available.

I understand "where you are coming from" with your "best" question. (I always wanted the "best" myself.)
Please try to understand where the culture here is coming from with the answers you receive.



Curt Schmidt
Moderator

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

You can't go wrong with either Missouri Boot & Shoe or Nick ************.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

I agree with Bryan...Missouri Boot and Shoe and the unmentionable man do well....
Avoiding the "I like my box" recommendation I can say that I was able to compare my Jersey Dude (and I don't mean Springsteen) L.S. Baker ('61) box with an original and compare the two. There was EXACTLY the same amount of stitches in the repro as the original...the outter flap was about 1/4" slimmer (width) however, this could be due to deterioration of the original. Most impressive is the construction of the inner pouch and the box itself. The dimensions were exact and the quality of the tins inside is astounding! I have to recommend this box.

I also own the reproduction of the J.A. Lisk box from MB&S. Although I have not viewed the original, I have read several descriptions and viewed several articles of this box. I have viewed several ANV boxes either in person or in pictures and it does "fit the bill" very well. Most impressive to me is the styling used in the shoulder strap slots in the back. The box was discovered with a 1 3/4inch strap...the reproduction is cut with this in mind and although a 2 inch strap will fit..it is VERY tight. Complete with lead finale closure. Kudos to Bob and the gang! Take into account this a .69 cal. box so probably not going to be what you're looking for.

I think most importantly is that you find the box for the portrayal. If you are looking for a .58 cal box, try to find one stamped with the depot that would of supplied the troops you are portraying. If that information cannot be obtained then choose a box of the most likely pattern. When I purchased my first box, I made the mistake of thinking that boxes look so much these same, as long as I don't open it no one would know the difference. I was wrong! These things are a work-of-art and VERY MUCH reflect the talents of their maker (good or bad). Make sure the box you purchase captures this "attitude" as well....hope this is helpful.

[woodsda]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

I am with Curt, use the Approved Vendor list and we on the forum should help push him in that direction since that is the rules of the forum.

[PanzerJager]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

I just want to chime in and say Bill at EJ Thomas is one of the few leather makers in business today that I am aware uses a period dye. This is not a bash on the other makers listed above but when you compare an original box, and two repros one with a modern dye and one dyed correctly with the period formula there is a noticeable difference in the finish. I own period leather goods and have handled quite a few items, a trained eye can pick out a modern dye as opposed to period dye. I am far from a leather expert but my understanding is a period dye chemically changed the leather to the black tone where a modern dye actually sits on top of the leather. This is why if you compare modern dyed items that have been used the dye will actually wear and rub off over time where as a period dye will not due to the chemical change. This may seem like a nit picky detail but as mentioned above, its just one of the details you should take into account when gauging the “best” repro along with stitching, thread, weight of the leather, pattern, etc.

Regards,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cartridge Box Recommendation

Hallo!

Correct...

On the Sliding Scale of Imperfection...

Many/most makers use modern alcholol based aniline black dye rather than the Period iron dissolved in acid dyestuff.

But, it is not always as simple as it may appear.

The acid content of modern tannage is different than Period tannage. Period leather accoutrements were typically Chestnut Oak, rich in tannin It was specificed because of its durability as well as because the levels of tannin reacted well to the chemical process of the tannins reacting with the iron in the dyestuff to turn a rich black through the dyers' art and craft.

With modern tannage being different, it can be hard to get the same surface deep and durable black without running up the acid- which leads to faster leather death (something reenactors paying their hard earned money do not want to see happen. For example, my Pard Jay has an iron dyed waistbelt made in 2002 that is falling apart and unuseable due to acid destruction. Most lads want to see their accoutrements last longer than the next actual Civil War reissuance cycle..)
And because of the tanning, it is not unusual for the modern leather to go splotchy, or splotchy gray or splotchy gray-blue rather than solid coal black.

I have an iron-dyed cartridge box from 2002 that is now a thin and uneven dark gray due to its deep black having changed.

At any rate, this iron dyeing is something of a lost art that many/most vendors simply choose to ignore in the realm of Hobby "Psychological Standards" just the way very few, if any, makers make Federal uniforms actually dyed blue with indigo.
And to the Naked Eye, the end result or appearance appears to be the same.

I commend vendors who strive to reach the Gold Standard, as well as we lads who go with the higher priced and more time and labor intensive Period methods even though they can mean sometimes ending up with a less durable and less long-lasting item.

Thanks for the posting furthering the discussion here!

Curt