Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

[sthabig]

Hi all,

I was hoping one could tell me if they have ever seen an original civilian hat similar to this one. It would be great if one could give me a comparison of it to an original. Hat made by Dirty Billy one of his "high end" ones.


Thanks,

Tyler

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

Hallo!

Yes...

IMHO, it is a common "wider brimmed bowler" type hat.



Curt

[sthabig]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

Thanks Curt,

It now occurs to me this would have been more appropriate for the Camp of Instruction forum.

But while I'm at it...does anyone have an idea how Dirty Billy's construction and materials compare to original "wide brimmed bowler hats"?

Thanks,

Tyler

[fahtz]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

The current thread on US Dress Hats has a post about the materials Billy Uses not being up to snuff. Nylon thread, cardboard, incorrect glue are all complaints that have been leveled at Billy in the past.

That Thread: http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...550#post135550

I had a hat when I first started that was from DB and the thread that held the band on was nylon, and the lining was glued in with some REAL nasty glue. I think Billy will cut corners where he can. I did not have a problem with his customer service, but some close friends have.

I would examine the thread close on the ribbon, and see if it looks like fishing line, if so, replace it.

I think his hats looks good on the outside.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

Looking quickly through some LOC images, found some spot-on matches to your hat.

Snippets from:

LC-DIG-cwpb-03707
Brandy Station, Va. Scouts and guides of the Army of the Potomac

LC-DIG-cwpb-04055
Petersburg, Va. Group of the quartermaster department, 1st Division, 9th Corps, at leisure

[sthabig]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

Jason,

Those pictures are exactly what I was looking for thanks!!

Tyler Habig

[sthabig]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

Mitch,

Just went outside to take a look at my hat and did find fishing line holding the bow on. Very disappointing I must say, but other than that I didn't see anything. How does one go about fixing this problem and is there anything else I should be on the lookout for?

Thanks,
Tyler Habig

[fahtz]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

Tyler,

I believe you just cut it with a seam ripper and stitch it back with some thread of your choosing, through the crown of the hat. I think the stitch ends up under the liner, just inside the sweat band. For this repair, I am sure you could stitch right through the liner with no ill effects.

[Edwin Carl Erwin]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

I was hoping one could tell me if they have ever seen an original civilian hat similar to this one...give me a comparison of it to an original.

Tyler,

I've worked on 19th century hats brought in for either archival restoration or renovation (Shudde Brothers www.shudde.com/). The hatter I'm a craftsman for has been in business since 1907, so we see a fair number of interesting old civilian & military hats from year to year. The brim & crown configuration are faithful to both English & American originals. Never seen an original lining like the one you have. The really older hats show evidence of a sewn-in lining that has gone missing. So, I can't comment based on having seen a similar lining.

Regarding the "fishing line" used on the hat, I'll speculate that what you have is what milliners today refer to as "invisible thread". Modern hat makers like Stetson & Resistol use this as way of getting around having an inventory of thread to match the color/hue of the fur felt body & hat band ribbon used. Take the hat to a fabric store & find a matching all cotton, linen, or silk thread. Replace that plastic thread with a period correct one.

Post how your hat turns out.

[sthabig]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

Alright that sounds like some good advice. Knowing nothing about the hat-making process or what materials were used during the 1861-1865 time period, I found that the inside patterned material is held on by a sticky substance and have no idea whether this is a period or modern hat making procedure.


Thanks,
Tyler Habig

[John McClellan]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

This is the answer to all of your problems:

TP&H Trading Co.
Tim Bender
610-582-0327

Nothing "dirty" about Tim's hats he is a great guy,and offers first rate service!

John McClellan
Fowlers Battery

[sthabig]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

John,

If I had an extra $100 lying around I'd buy a new hat, but since I'm on a tight budget here I thought I'd try and fix up the one I already have.

Thanks,
Tyler Habig

[John McClellan]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

Tyler,
I understand wanting to fix what you got, I was just passing on some info. And share my experiences with Tim. You could always call Billy:lightning about the problem's you have seen in the hat.

John McClellan
Fowlers Battery

[sthabig]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

John,

Haha I didn't mean to sound rude and I would love to pursue the Tim Bender route at some point, but I got what I got you know. I think for the most part these are problems that I can fix myself without having to resort to buying a new hat.

Thanks,

Tyler Habig

[Edwin Carl Erwin]

Re: Repro vs. Original Civilian Hat

Tyler,

I found that the inside patterned material is held on by a sticky substance and have no idea whether this is a period or modern hat making procedure.

Linings were sewn in during the 19th cen. & until mid-20th cen. Only one contemporary hat maker still sews linings into the crown. The "sticky substance" might just be hot glue, as that's how linings are generally attached now.