How to Carry Eating Utensils

[jdanner723]

Hey all,
I was wondering what might be a period way of carrying eating utensils. I picked up a small rectangular shaped bag years ago and have carried my knife fork and spoon in there. I was recently thinking about deconstructing it and hand sewing it back together. I was hoping to not have to do this. I don't know if the button hole that allows the piece to close would hold up enough for me to sew it again. I would rather have something already made or perhaps a pattern that I could hand sew one of my own. Does anyone have a pattern or something they carry their utensils in that I may be able to copy through photographs? Thank you for your help.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

Joseph My Dear Lad,

Why do you need a bag for a spoon that has a perfectly good haversack to ride in?

The 'utensil bag' was used during the War and is available today, I also frankly think its as much a waste of time and money then as it is now. Whittle down your personal mess furniture to a canteen half, a small cup and a sturdy spoon. It will weigh less, take up less space and will need no special bag. If you need to cut up something use the pocketknife you have in your trousers.

Now, do a search for utensils+mess+furniture+references - http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...archid=1245374

There are two long and detailed threads on this subject...

[jdanner723]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

You bring up a good point. Perhaps I'll just throw the bugger out! Many thanks, I'll try that search you mentioned.

[Michael Comer]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

You don't need anything special. If you want to have them in a bag, any old poke sack will do. But if you want to have a special bag for them, there's nothing saying you can't do that certainly. It's a matter of personal choice.

I personally carry only a spoon along with a canteen half. Those, along with my pocket knife and my hands allow me to take care of any food that happens to come to me.

[lthull3rdla]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

I bought a small canvas thingie years ago with slots for a knife fork and spoon and it closes with a button. Its light, takes up no appreciable space and after 16 years it has a nice nasty patina LOL

My wife thinks it would up some nice bacteria! WAsh it? NEVER..

whether or not it is period correct I have no idea but I keep it anyway with my canteen half in my haversack.

Ronnie

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

Well as we approach the 150th anniversary of the Early-War (1859-1862), this is a very valid point...as several techniques were discussed during this time for where to carry mess-gear.

Technically, the haversack is supposed to be reserved for carrying rations...think could you carry 3-days rations, a cup, fork/knife/spoon, mess-pan, etc. in your haversack...maybe...but a typical haversack 10 x 10 up to 14 x 14 seems to shrink fast when trying to put "everything" into it.

What did the original men do? Well, some soldiers ate the bulk of their rations in one sitting and so may very well had the room to place all their mess-equipment in their haversack...but what did the other soldiers do??

I suppose the question is how did the original soldiers deal with this same situation?? Well in the collection of the MoC, there are a few "utility" bags that were used for the puspose of solely carrying eating utensils, toothbrushes...etc (these are pictured in the CS Echoes of Glory).

Gilham's Manual goes through the effort of breaking down in painstaking detail what every volunteer soldier should carry:

Gilham's Manual for the Volunteer and Militia.

p. 639

760...The haversack is made of white linen or cotton duck; it is worn from right the right shoulder to the left side; it should be large enough to contain at least three days' rations of bread and meat, and would be much improved by having a small tin box in it large enough to contain the meat ration....

p. 643

762. Every man sould be provided with the following articles at all times, such as are not on the person to be kept in the knapsack:

Two woolen shirts.
Two pair thick cotton drawers.
Four pair woolen socks.
Two pair stout woolen shoes, with broad, thick soles, for footmen.
One pair boots, and one pair of shoes for horsemen.
Towels, handkerchiefs, comb and brush, and tooth-brush. Stout linen thread, large needles, a bit of wax, a few buttons, paper of pins, and a thimble, all contained in a small buckskin or stout cloth bag.

In addition every man should be supplied with a tin plate; quart cup with the handle well riveted on, so as to serve the soldier for making his coffee, etc., in case of necessity, as well as for ordinary drinking cup; knife, fork, and spoon. The plate may be carried in the knapsack, or on the outside of the straps, or all the plates of the company may be packed in the camp-kettles; the cup may be carried on the waistbelt, or on the knapsack strap, and the knife, fork, and spoon should be carried in a leathern sheath which slips on the waistbelt, to be worn in the front, and on the left center of the body. Fig. 176 shows the manner of arranging the sheath....

With regards to never washing things...remember the original men we humbly try to portray may have liked to be clean to...a good rinse in boiling water...or a thorough wash from time to time...of all your equipment is acceptable.

Canteen Halves...different discussion...buy why do we always revert to the canteen halve answers whenever mess-gear comes up?...I'd appreciate some substantial documentation that the use of canteen halves was widespread enough that more than 15% of both armies used these...

Maybe documentation isn't something the forum membership isn't interested in anymore??

Thoughts?

Paul B.

[-Jesse-]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

[/QUOTE]Canteen Halves...different discussion...buy why do we always revert to the canteen halve answers whenever mess-gear comes up?...I'd appreciate some substantial documentation that the use of canteen halves was widespread enough that more than 15% of both armies used these...

Maybe documentation isn't something the forum membership isn't interested in anymore??

Thoughts?

Paul B.[/QUOTE]



I totally agree with this...it seems everyone has a canteen half now

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

Regarding my suggestion of a Canteen Half...

Well... I guess I just gave Joseph the guidence a Mess or Unit NCO, since his Mess or Unit NCO wasn't available or willing to provide some mess furniture guidence, I did.

Billings and Hinman both discuss this as a practice. Are those questioning my suggestion of a canteen familiar with these actual Civil War soldiers and their books? I'll find the page number references and quotes shortly and post them.

Hmmm... I saw a lot of canteen halves out in Kisatachie this past week.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

Regarding my suggestion of a Canteen Half...

Well... I guess I just gave Joseph the guidence a Mess or Unit NCO, since his Mess or Unit NCO wasn't available or willing to provide some mess furniture guidence, I did.

Billings and Hinman both discuss this as a practice. Are those questioning my suggestion of a canteen familiar with these actual Civil War soldiers and their books? I'll find the page number references and quotes shortly and post them.

Hmmm... I saw a lot of canteen halves out in Kisatachie this past week.

No I'm not questioning what is in Billings' Hardtack and Coffee...or other books...the practice of using a canteen half...I believe can be documented...but do we believe this to be a common enough practive that this becomes a supplement to the "issued" items?

So in your'e mind your'e stating that every soldier should start with the use of a canteen half...and that every NCO should encourage this practice (in-place of using the Issued Equipment)? Remember historically this means that these pieces had to be procurred...and that means the destruction of government property...sure it happened...but this is should not be the "cure-all" suggestion to every mess-equipment question...

Much in the same line of thinking...a few years ago, on this very forum...it was suggested that every man should procure a stamped sheet iron skillet to supplement as both a plate and frying pan...the practice of using sheet iron skillets during the war can be well documented...but the same documentation will also lead to the conclusion that these were far from common...and were highly prized items...so I would think in the same train of thought...not every-man should have these in their kit, because their use would be WAY-OVER-REPRESENTED...again...we get to the idea of the squad/mess size groups 4-6 soldiers working together to share the load...

Kisatachie: So modern reenactorisms makes a case for entire companies using non-issued items as base-kit items...? Hmmmn...again this is the Authentic-Campaigner...isn't it?

Paul B.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

Hallo!

Moderator hat on...

Thanks lads for trying to rein this horse in.

Moderator hat off...

Rhetorical question requiring/desiring no answer: If I replace the toothbrush in my jacket's unbuttoned button hole with a spoon, is that okay?

Let's please not go down the path of canteen halves tied over canteens either.

Curt

[lukegilly13]

...
Canteen Halves...different discussion...buy why do we always revert to the canteen halve answers whenever mess-gear comes up?...I'd appreciate some substantial documentation that the use of canteen halves was widespread enough that more than 15% of both armies used these...

Paul B.

Good point....it does seem to be a very popular item in the community for it's practicallity. I've spent the morning searching for images of surviving originals. This is what I came up with. Now, we don't know if the canteen was being used as a half...or if just half survived the ages....however, look at the two holes next to the half circle cut out for the spout. They look to me to be too evenly spaced to be created from the natural rusting process. Again, it could be a coincidence.

image taken from CSrelics.com
Now, this by far doesn't justify the majority of soliders carrying them...or even one soldier technically...however, it does open the door for the possiblity. Does anyone know of images of originals?

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

So in your'e mind your'e stating that every soldier should start with the use of a canteen half...and that every NCO should encourage this practice (in-place of using the Issued Equipment)? Remember historically this means that these pieces had to be procurred...and that means the destruction of government property...sure it happened...but this is should not be the "cure-all" suggestion to every mess-equipment question...

I wasn't trying to cure-all. I was giving a helpful suggestion and pointing out that his NCO's should be helping him with this and that the Search Function provides a wealth of information before you and another decided my suggestion of canteen half was "too common" to which I respoonded.

Kisatachie: So modern reenactorisms makes a case for entire companies using non-issued items as base-kit items...?

No it doesn't. I was pointing out that those in this hobby who actually go to a 'campaign' event use canteen halves effectively like the actual soldiers on campaign did. By the way, I also have a tin plate which I use in 'garrison' type events.

Hmmmn...again this is the Authentic-Campaigner...isn't it?

Is it? My suggestion was just that a suggestion, until you poked me in the eye that I'm giving an old, tired and burned out response to a neophytes question. Now, please post up some references identifying the use of tin plates on campaign for our education.

Better yet, I'll save you the effort... Paul, you win. I am just a Farb masquerading around reinforcing Renactorisms, actually going to events with the 1% of the on-line community that goes to the same events and I don't know my sphincter from a hole in the ground.

Signing Off...

[jake.koch]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

Hey All,

I was coincidently thinking about this same question earlier this morning. I looked through Echoes of Glory and did not see a surviving canteen half among the federal mess equipment. Among the confederate equipment the closest item I found was a cornmeal sifter made from a tin drum canteen.

Looking through Billings, on pages 133-134 he talks about the different items used

"To fry it necessitated the taking along of a frying-pan with which not many of the men cared to burden themselves. These fry-pans -Marbleheadmen called them Creepers - were yet comparatively light, being made of thin wrought iron. They were of different sizes, and were kept on sale by sutlers. It was a common sight on the march to see them borne aloft on a musket, to which they were lashed, or tucked beneath the straps of a knapsack. But there was another fry-pan which distanced these both in respect of lightness and space. The soldier called in his own ingenuity to aid him here as in so many other directions, and consequently the men could be seen by the scores frying the food in their tin plate, held in the jaws of a split stick, or fully as often an old canteen was unsoldered and its concave sides mustered into active duty as fry-pans"

Keeping in mind this is just one source it would seem that there definately were a few frying pans carried, although they were definately a minority, the rest was split between tin plates and canteen halves. I don't know how this would pertain to the West, I would think canteen halves would be more common in the east just because of the abundance of extra equipment but that is only an assumption. I definately think that canteen halves are one of the most over-represented items, especially at early war events.

When I was starting to get into the authentic world I started out with a canteen half which everyone else in my unit at the time had. I now personally prefer a frying pan, but I am the only one in my current mess that carries one, someone else carries my hatchet, and so on and so forth so that we aren't loaded down like fresh fish.

I think part of it comes down to if you work and cook as a mess or you cook individually.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

Here's an account of canteen half use that I just located last night. This passage comes from "Memoirs of Orrin E. Doty, Company H 1st U.S. Sharpshooters." I'd love to include the ridiculously lengthy subtitle but I don't think you guys could handle the torture.

"We had one Man in our Company by the name of O. B. Smith, a jolly good-natured fellow. He was always baking “Panney Cakes”, as he called them, when he could get the flour. He had one half of a canteen with a split stick for a handle, and with this he would bake his cakes.

He would set down on the ground by a fire, and put a tin plate on the ground behind him, and as fast as he baked them he would put them on the plate, and some of the boys would keep taking some and eating them every time he was not looking. After a while he began to think that there was something wrong, and that they were helping themselves to his cakes, and so every time he baked a cake, he would lay it on the plate and then spit on it and then laugh and say “Now, help yourself!” - but they did not hanker for any more."

I had to include that last part about spitting on the pan cakes. Remember, the next time your mess mates are stealing your food just do like O.B. Smith!

As for my own preferences it likely depends upon the event, time period being portrayed, impression, etc. etc.. I am typically the cook within my mess of four to six so I carry my little fry pan, boiler, and a nice sharp butcher's knife. In a heavy cotton bag within my haversack is the butcher's knife and my fork and spoon. I don't usually carry a cup or dipper but share with someone else or drink from the boiler after my mess is fed and full of coffee. I have a nice plate I got from the Wisconsin Veteran's Museum but it's almost too nice to use. One person carries a canteen half in my entire mess but they're such a pain to use that I sought out the aforementioned fry pan.

[ohpkirk]

Re: How to Carry Eating Utensils

Kisatachie: So modern reenactorisms makes a case for entire companies using non-issued items as base-kit items...? Hmmmn...again this is the Authentic-Campaigner...isn't it?

Paul B.

Seeing as how you didn't make the trek out west, being a participant I can state that I only saw one person (on the Louisianan's side) using a canteen half to cook our lowly pork. As for the federals, I am almost positive that there was no company-wide usage of canteen halves as frying pans.....from what I saw they had a rather large commisary set up.