Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

[Benedict]

Gentlemen,

I would like to know in which situations Federal soldiers had to wear their waist belts without accoutrements (i.e., without cap box and bayonet scabbard). Or, to put it differently, was the waist belt always worn with full accoutrements? I would be more than happy if anybody could point me to official regulations concerning my question.

Thank you!


P.S.: And would a new soldier have received belt, cap box, scabbard, and cartridge box plus belt at the same time or subsequently?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize...

"Accoutrements" tend to be issued as something of a "set," however once in service it became a matter of what individual items may have been needed or not needed as a result of subsequent inspections requisitioning replacements for items found unserviceable, worn out, lost, or thrown away.

IMHO, I am not sure one can find an "absolute" or "universal" for the presence or absence of accoutrements. Instead, there is the "NUG," and then the "Exceptions." And what we see, or don't see in surviving images do not always tell us what the strictness, laxness, or time and place related circumstances should tell us if we knew.

Here is an example of an 1864 engineers lad wearing just his waistbelt as a "trouser belt' whether out of need or his sense of some "fashion" statement:



And a close up view:



Here is a clsoe up from an often used "stacked arms" image. While we do not know the conditions or circumstances, it is obvious some men placed their accoutrements on the stacks (and kit under them) while others took theirs away (out of camera range):



My understanding is that men not "under arms" or "on parade," or "at inspection" such as in camp or for fatigue details, were not NUG required to wear their accoutrements.

Curt

[FlaYankee]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

Wow great pic. Have never seen that one. Curt do you know or have any idea where that pic was taken of the Engineers?
Kindest Regards

[stx]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

I agree, great pic. Where would he even carry that pipe on campaign?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

Hallo!

August 1864. "Petersburg, Virginia. Group of Company B, U.S. Engineer Battalion"

IMHO, the original image was mis-labelled, as there are three "C" and one "D" company brass letters visible.

The lad probably kept the long pipe stem intact in the engineers' wagons.

Curt

[Salt Pork]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

Did anyone else see the castle brass on that soliders coat, what a queer place to put the brass.

Salt Pork (William Summe)

[508preach]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

Did anyone else see the castle brass on that soliders coat, what a queer place to put the brass.

Salt Pork (William Summe)

I agree...its almost as if he placed it there for the photo, cause if you think about it with haversack strap, canteen strap and cartridge box strap where he has the castle placed seems like it would snag on those straps alot and become bothersome.

And if you look at all the others wearing the castle they are all very bright and shiney except for one that looks pretty tarnished ( far right standing) makes me also wonder if they pulled these out and put them on just for the photo which might account for the odd placement of the castle.

But all in all that is a really neat image.

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

Ben, do you mean like in modern times( Bundeswehr) when you had to wear your waistbelt to your uniform without magazine boxes and Y-strap on?
If so that was not the practise during the CW.

[JimKindred]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

It wasn't until the 1930's that a leather waist belt alone was authorized to be worn with a US Army uniform and this with Class A's. The early Class A blouse had built in hooks in the back to secure the belt, the hooks were discontinued in the early WWII years along with the belt. The four pocket blouse continued in service until eventually replaced by the Ike jacket.

[Matt_E_Wright]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

If you have a copy of "Army Blue" check out the photo on page 150. For those who don't have it, the photo is of a corporal in the 8th U.S. Infantry wearing the dress hat w/ all the bells and whistles, frock, shoulder scales, white gloves AND the leather wasitbelt without bayonet scabbard or cap pouch.

Matt Wright

[GWagner]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

What type of shirt is he wearing? It appears to have no buttons.

[Mutt]

Re: Wearing of Waist Belt without Accoutrements - When?

Hello all,

Love that Engineer image. Have used it for my engineer impression several times. See my profile/avatar pic, I'm on the left. My bud Pete has the look down pat. Was taken at Carlisle where we dug a rifle pit and completed gabbions. funfun!

Anyway, my two barks on the subject at hand. While the engineer photo is great, does it really ring possible for the infantryman? You could apply the same midset to the awesome brass castle on the one fella's blouse. By 64 (and before of course) they were digging, constructing defenses, cuting down trees, constructin defenses etc. did they have much need for the accoutrements of an infantryman? I'm not trying to be mean, just thinking it out out-loud :) That would explain why he could use his belt sans bayonet scabbard and cap pouch.

Just a few thoughts. My last is: If my trousers were falling down due to lack of braces, all kinds of stuff littered the ground and there's a belt from a fallen comrade amoung them, I'd probably strip it and use it.

Best Regards,