Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

[BrandonEnglish]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

Brandon, Luke, I don't see it on any of them.

I don't think the practice is a reenactorism, because there is some evidence they did it. But I think when you see a whole company of Confederates at an event doing it, it may be "over represented".

I agree, it's hard to tell, looks like the marching Confederates the 2nd file in maybe has one, but it's so darn blurry I couldn't tell. I'd have to agree, I tried. :)

[sigsaye]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

I don't doubt that it is historically accurate. And I agree with all the reasons it was/is done. It makes perfect sense to me, so I guess my question is more to the reenactor side. If you are carrying your blanket in a bed roll, what are you carrying in the knapsack?

Steve Hesson

[sthabig]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

How much of this discussion is based on 'Reenactor Practice' vice 'Historical Documentation'?

I've never tried wearing both a blanket roll and a knapsack. The way I figure it the knapsack has a perfectly good compartment for the blanket so I should use it as intended...

What is being said on here is not necessarily reenactor practice. We have picture documentation of soldiers wearing knapsacks w/blankets. So it seems that wearing a knapsack/blanket roll is more of a preference than anything. If a practice existed in the 1860s it is hard to tell how wide-spread or common it was without lengthy documentation.

Like others have said this does mean a whole unit should be wearing knapsacks w/blanket rolls, but a few.

"This does not pass my smell test. It is 'likely' we would come up with similiar methods, but it is not 'certain' we would. We are different beings, with different body types and different experiences removed by 150 years. Except by grounding our practices and fieldcraft in historical documentation we will fall prey to coloring our practices with our modern experiences."


We're all human...I don't see how our modern experience would effect whether or not we wear a blanket roll with our knapsack. I would say it would be decided on convenience and comfortability.


Thanks,

Tyler

[PogueMahone]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

Steve,

Typically, knapsacks used by Confederates don't hold a lot. A good thick blanket can quickly fill up the space. And, as mentioned by some, the blanket rolled into a horse collar doesn't weigh much, hardly noticeable. The knapsack sans blanket is also nearly weightless. It IS very comfortable. So, it isn't so much that we are carrying a full knapsack to the extent the blanket will not fit, it is that the space is limited and the combination tends to be more comfortable.

We don't seem to know why the original guys were doing it. I am wondering if perhaps they are carrying a spare/pick-up blanket on the outside, something they don't mind dropping again if pressed. Maybe these guys can't psychologically give up the comfort of the knapsack completely for the bedroll and have found a hybrid practice? Who knows? I don't think I've seen any written reference to it, just images.

Tyler,

I have to side with Pete, the majority of responses on this thread have been "This is what I do" vs. "here is physical evidence of what they did". And I also agree that our modern mindsets affect how we approach what they did. If it didn't we wouldn't be nearly as aggressive in battle scenarios as we are and we would keep better distances. But because we know we aren't likely to get hurt, we press forward where we shouldn't and we stand up when we shouldn't. An example better framed to this discussion is the use of the stick in the knapsack straps (not alluding to the I & C design, but as used typically in U.S. double bag straps) to better distribute the weight. As modern men, we know it works, but have you ever seen any evidence, photo, written or relic, that supports the device? I haven't. Yet I've seen the stick in the straps. I saw it at ITPW.

If the cph end of the hobby is going to continue to push authenticity, we have to be cognizant of creeping reenactorisms, hardkewlisms and our modern knowledge and stop bad habits from forming.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

If the cph end of the hobby is going to continue to push authenticity, we have to be cognizant of creeping reenactorisms, hardkewlisms and our modern knowledge and stop bad habits from forming.

Joe,

Well said.

In the history based hobby, event specific research was once held paramount. Is it still, or is this end of the hobby regressing to monkey-see-monkey-do?

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

Mod Hat On:

Yes, documentation of practice is paramount. However, the original question was:

Has anyone ever tried this? ...
Any other thoughts

The original poster was not questioning whether or not this practice was done, historically. He wanted to know if folks have tried it. Hence the posts saying, "yes, I have, and I do/don't like it" etc.

That this practice is historically accurate was (in his mind) was already establish by the "Prisoners Three" photo. Yes, I think it was worth noting that our impressions on campaign should not be based on prisoner photos.

It has now been established through period photographs and artwork by veterans that this was done. So, I think that question is resolved.

Let's not declare the death of authentic reenacting just yet.

Mod Hat Off:
A good question would be: What is that "thing" being worn over the shoulder with the knapsack? It might be a blanket roll, but it might just be a gum blanket.

Maybe it was a cloudy day and a guy didn't want halt to get under his gum.

Maybe those boys crossing the Potomac wrapped up their shoes, socks, trousers, drawers, etc. in their gum for the walk through the water.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

Well, John, it was another mod, with his mod hat off, that first suggested the practice might not be NUG. The subsequent question only highlighted that the practice seems to be less common to the original soldiers than to the reenacting soldiers. Further comments were only to give a sharper edge to the concept of something being overdone by reenactors because of a single (or limited) image(s).

My last comments didn't say authenticity was dead, but was a hint that perhaps we are backsliding in our commitment.

It is the evolution of a thread and discussion. If we had simply answered the first poster's question, this thread would have been full of "Yes" and "No" responses and what interest would there be in reading that?

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

Fellows,
have we any images of Yanks doing this? By my count in this thread we have the prisoners three (which is still kinda dubious 'cause those fellows may have stocked up before heading off to prison), the Redwood sketches, the Rosenstock photo, and the 5 forks photo. All johnnies. brother smotherman made the point that CS knapsacks don't hold as much (Pritchard and I&C), and I tend to agree. If you get a good blanket in an I&C pack, ain't much room for much else. I think with the above documentation, one would have the documentation available to practice knapsack and bedroll, but like most CS stuff, a couple 3 photos and sketches is about as good as your are going to get.

I agree with brother wickett in the line of thinking is that there are only so many ways to carry your gear. Be it knapsack, horse collar, short roll, whatever. In an old thread from 04 concerning blanket rolls, John Stillwagon summed it up by saying there are only so many ways you can roll/fold a blanket into a tubular shape then tie the ends and put it over a shoulder. Its not rocket science. mine may differ from wickett's, or smothermans, but not by much.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

Joe,

Curt's post (as I saw it) was directed specifically toward the photo of the "Prisoners Three". It would not be good to use that pic as a justification for the gear a soldier would use on campaign because of (among other things) they were prisoners potentially "stocking up" on supplies for prison life.

Regarding the original poster's purpose:
There was some of gnashing of teeth over the folks responding with "I've tried it" answerws. Normally, I don't like those types of answers either. However, (1) this is the CoI folder (formerly known as "The Awkward Squad") and (2) that was the specific question that was being asked.

I didn't want the readership to suddenly think that personal opinion was sufficient justification for a practice, gear, etc. It ain't. However, given 1 and 2 (above), they seemed allowable in this instance.

Make sense?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

Hallo!

"Some lads interpret the prisoner image as being more of what the men "loaded up" when they knew they going off to a POW camp moreso than what they NUG used and carried in that way on campaign.

Not to mention how they felt to pose, or we made to pose by the photographer.'

Ifin that mod be me...

"Well, John, it was another mod, with his mod hat off, that first suggested the practice might not be NUG."

IMHO, it had nothing to do with my mod status, and "I" was not suggesting any personal position other than "some lads interpret" as an attempt to inject that we do not always know the context and circumstances of the image-taking. And that images of POW's may or may not be illustrative of actual campaign practice. (and some think not).

:)

Curt

[sthabig]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

Steve,

Typically, knapsacks used by Confederates don't hold a lot. A good thick blanket can quickly fill up the space. And, as mentioned by some, the blanket rolled into a horse collar doesn't weigh much, hardly noticeable. The knapsack sans blanket is also nearly weightless. It IS very comfortable. So, it isn't so much that we are carrying a full knapsack to the extent the blanket will not fit, it is that the space is limited and the combination tends to be more comfortable.

We don't seem to know why the original guys were doing it. I am wondering if perhaps they are carrying a spare/pick-up blanket on the outside, something they don't mind dropping again if pressed. Maybe these guys can't psychologically give up the comfort of the knapsack completely for the bedroll and have found a hybrid practice? Who knows? I don't think I've seen any written reference to it, just images.

Tyler,

I have to side with Pete, the majority of responses on this thread have been "This is what I do" vs. "here is physical evidence of what they did". And I also agree that our modern mindsets affect how we approach what they did. If it didn't we wouldn't be nearly as aggressive in battle scenarios as we are and we would keep better distances. But because we know we aren't likely to get hurt, we press forward where we shouldn't and we stand up when we shouldn't. An example better framed to this discussion is the use of the stick in the knapsack straps (not alluding to the I & C design, but as used typically in U.S. double bag straps) to better distribute the weight. As modern men, we know it works, but have you ever seen any evidence, photo, written or relic, that supports the device? I haven't. Yet I've seen the stick in the straps. I saw it at ITPW.

If the cph end of the hobby is going to continue to push authenticity, we have to be cognizant of creeping reenactorisms, hardkewlisms and our modern knowledge and stop bad habits from forming.

Those are some very good points...I'm glad you posted because I realize that authenticity must come before "period (what we may think is period)" conveniences. In other words we must know for certain what and how something was used before we apply it ourselves. Once you brought the point up on how we as reenactors, will not react as they did during a battle scenario, I was able to put that in perspective with this discussion and now realize that without the wide-spread documentation we cannot assume anything.

Thanks,

Tyler Habig

[Moose]

Re: Wearing a bed roll and a knapsack?

Gents,
While reading some of the 15th Virginia Regimental History today, I came across an interesting passage. While the passage does not relate to wearing both the knapsack and bedroll, it does however pertain to wearing multiple iteams in an interesting way.

Prior to the 15th being engaged at Sharpsburg, they were ordered to "...unlsing knapsacks, pile them in a field, and leave a guard with them;" but one private of that regiment, Private Thomas refused to leave both his blanket and his overcoat: "...just before we got to where the fighting was we halted and were told to leave what we had there, but all I had was one blanket and an overcoat, each folded up seperately, one on one shoulder and one on the other. I left one and held on to the other, as we were going into the fight'..."

I have never seen a blanket and overcoat being carried in such a manner. I guess like others have said, these men were resourceful, but hey, at least we have documentaion for this one:wink_smil

Cheers,