Camp furniture on campaign

[lojafan]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

Thank you everyone for your comments! They will all be taken into consideration for future events. But for now I will continue with my current "no furniture" impression!

Thanks again and God Bless!

[PogueMahone]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

Not for nothing, but what encompasses a "campaign" may need to be given more consideration. Obviously, the interpretation here is that a campaign is always about moving every single day. But, in reality, that isn't always the case. A great example was the Red River Campaign, notably recreated at the recent Into the Piney Woods event. Reading Newsome's book, we find our "original campaigners" in camp a couple of days at a time on more than one occassion. They are getting regular mail via the navy and even holding Dress Parades and conducting drill. These are not activities we, as reenactors, normally associate with "campaigning", yet there they are.

Also, keep in mind that there are always two sides to a campaign, and quite often one side is manuevering against a long established position of the other side. That established position may have been there for months, allowing time for those soldiers to have adopted the "comforts of home". Vicksburg was a campaign by definition, but the Confederates had been in the city for some time prior to the arrival of Grant's army. Both sides had large camps with bombproofs in a short time. There wasn't a lot marching once the destination was reached, but it was, technically, a campaign. Thomas' troops garrisoning Nashville, where several forts protected the city, prostitution was licensed and legal and gambling was rampant, surely were enjoying the proximity of the city to their camps, but they also hosted Hood's army during Hood's Tennessee Campaign.

To use the broad brush of "always marching" to interpret "campaign" denies you many opportunities to accurately portray Civil War soldiers. Likewise, our hobby always seems to interpret those events that are the most exciting and we fail to enjoy that most maddening aspect of army life - boredom.

Just wanted to add some alternative thought to the mix.

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

This is Virginia's spouse posting.

One other comment to add to the discussion. Don't succumb to the temptation to use a "natural" chair available at many mainstream events -- a bale of straw. If I remember correctly, although there were a few hay balers in existence, the bales they produced were rectangles with about the mass of the jellyroll bales so common these days. Not exactly a thing a soldier would have carried from a barn to his camp.

I agree with the use of whatever patch of ground is convenient. Even in the picture of soldiers sitting in chairs that was posted, look how many of the ones not standing were on the ground.

Michael Mescher

[Charles Heath]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

Joe brings up a great point about the very static elements in some "campaigns," and his remarks also point out the trend to move away from opening a book, reading history, and then doing it. Perhaps the first question should have been "for which event are we studying?"

After all, not each and every camp has (or had) a bark barren deadfall at just the right height so suitable for a comfy seat at the sinks. Ah, the joys of pleasant living!

[Horace]

I Hate Cute History

I agree that Joe made some good points. This has been a lively thread.
It's vital to consider the time and place, and interpretation is important.
What I was assuming was 'generic campaign mode' as interpreted for people by reenactors. It's just hard to watch a guy showing the unsuspecting what "soldiers in the field looked like" while standing on an Oriental rug, next to a cookfire with 100 pounds of iron gimracks hanging over it. It doesn't provoke any insights. It's 'history by Hummel'. Civil war soldiers would be rolling over in their graves, or at least rolling their eyes, at some of the 'information' we see.
Did a chair ever end up at the camp fire of common soldiers on the march? Sure. I recently read about members of the 15th N.Y. Cavalry riding around in bonnets and dresses they'd stolen out of a house. That happened, one afternoon on one day. Should it be included in a living history interpretation? Go for true, not for cute.
Of course, 20 guys who look like bums passed out on their piles of gear is a much tougher sell than zouaves arranged around a table while ladies in ball gowns twirl through the scene. I know there's an anacronym for the generic approach. I can't remember it, but I like it.

[Charles Heath]

Re: I Hate Cute History

Todd, and looking backwards at the fun of a winter camp -- wasn't it a hoot to have real garbage piles with goodies to salvage at a certain event? Hehehehe...blame that on Sparky Henion.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

I got the impression that the question was beyond the obvious farbisms of rugs and ironmongery. I felt that some were discrediting the use of cracker boxes as simple stools. Rations did get issued on campaign and so empty boxes may have been available, even in the overnight bivouacs of an active moving army. To so broadly reply "they couldn't carry it" completely ignores the reality. No, they didn't carry a chair on their back, but sometimes providence supplies a man with what he needs.

Did every soldier have the opportunity to snatch up an empty box for his perch at every stop? Of course not! And, I would suspect that officers, clerks and NCOs would lay claim to any seating or "desk" surface that fell into view, with perhaps a pecking order within that group. Paperwork must be done!

We have to maintain a balance between what is "kewl" and "if they'd had it, they'd used it" and the reality of the scenario portrayed. We can't possibly know every detail, so we have to make some assumptions, and those can be additions or subtractions from what we might do at some other scenario. Take what history tells us, from the OR's to the personal diaries/journals to the regimental histories, use some common sense, but don't stray from the documented history.

[Rmhisteach]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

36th Officers in June of 1864. Modified barrels, crates, and chairs.

Mark . Where was this photot taken??? Where were they at that time?

RM

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

Rod, I went through the regt. history and my notes must be wrong for it to be '64 Tenn. After Stone's River, they were around Murfreesboro, Tenn. until June '63, when they went on the Tullahoma Campaign. They also built a pretty interesting church while they were there. I doubt we'd ever see something like this crafted in the field, but talk about a sight to see.

[DougCooper]

Re: I Hate Cute History

Two outstanding quotes from Todd and Joe:

"Go for true, not for cute"

and....

"take what history tells us"

Intuitively, at some point as a CPH type, you know what PEC is and from there, you add more research for the time and place. Frankly, that is one of the best things about the hobby. An advanced party setting up a guard or picket post might take some items from the local farm house to make their 3 days or so more comfy...back at the reserve of course. A foraging party might load up something you can't actually eat. A box, or real chair or some such might make a trench a drier, better place to be. If one looked long enough, you will probably find examples.

As Joe says, when describing the long march toward or from a big battle (a campaign) it means something different than the "Vicksburg Campaign."

Again, I think most of us intuitively know this stuff. We also know that privates did not make chairs to carry on their backs between stops, nor did they make "one night" chairs when they stopped. But these are the same men who could boil water to make coffee if given 15 minutes alone, and who could throw up works at the drop of a hat. Left alone long enough, in a few day stop between movements, creature comforts could be had or made by privates.

....but no iron mongery, beds, big tents, ladder back chairs, cots, divans...to say nothing of modern stuff in colors not found in nature.

I feel a cracker box improvisation competition coming on at a future living history :D

[Rmhisteach]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

WOW! That would have been really neat.

RM

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

From Life With the Thirty-Fourth Massachusetts Infantry In the War of the Rebellion, W. S. Lincoln, Noyes, Snow & Company, Worcester, 1879, p. 262, describing the regiment as they marched up the Valley in 1864 under Sigel:

"Look at us now! All chairs and stools having been sent back, and tables, and other conveniences of camp life having vanished, we are seated upon the ground, and eating our dinners from dishes balanced on our knees. The Adjutant writes his orders upon a drum-head, on paper which his clerk carries in his coat pocket, and with pen and ink which he carries on his own person."

I've given a lot of consideration to using a drum-head as a desk, but I need to find someone to carry it for me... :)

Besides a lot of camp furniture, which stayed in Harper's Ferry, the 34th had an auxilary force, which is woefully under-represented in re-enacting:

"Among these dogs are a few brought from home when we came out; more which have been confiscated by the boys, at the different stations we have occupied; and not a few coaxed into following us on our different marches. Some howl at every bugle call; all bark in chorus when the drum corps makes its presence known by its unique performances. Many are regular in their attendance at all drills, and one of these sings second, whenever our Colonel’s voice is heard delivering his words of command. Some fall in regularly, and march in line for their rations; others, guerilla like, hang on the flanks, making stealthy approach to the cook-houses, and steal, and are off. Noble New-Foundlands, wiry terriers, mastiffs, hounds, pointers, bull dogs, poodles, and mongrels of all kinds and degrees. Our stock has increased miraculously of late, and what with the regular howlings and irregular fights, over which it seems as if the boys luxuriate, as over nothing else, interference came from Headquarters, at last, in the shape of an order. The fightings were made to cease, but the dogs remained – until to-day, when the boys have corralled all they could coax, and have turned them loose again, with tin decorations to their tails."

Unfortunately, while the furniture stayed in camp, the dogs accompanied the regiment on campaign, and were with them in the battle of New Market:

"A charge of the whole line was ordered. Our men sprang forward with a cheer. Our dogs, of whom we had a small army, ran frolicking and barking before us, as they had so often done, on drill. Receiving the fire of both lines, they were nearly all killed."

I know I've wandered off topic, but someday I'd like to see a monument raised to the dogs of the 34th Massachusetts.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

Hallo!

Circumstances and context unknown, here (again) is Lt. Washington and Captain Custer sitting on a box at Fair Oaks.

:)



Curt

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Camp furniture on campaign

Hallo!

Cutting and pasting Grumpy Dave's snapshot post from another thread:

General Order 153

O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME 14 [S# 14]
CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS RELATING TO THE PENINSULAR CAMPAIGN, VIRGINIA, FROM MARCH 17 TO SEPTEMBER 2, 1862.
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ETC -- #14

CIRCULAR.] HEADQUARTERS ARMY OF THE POTOMAC,
Camp near Harrison's Landing, Va., August 10, 1862.
The general commanding directs that you have your corps in readiness to march on temporary service to-morrow at 2 o'clock p.m. The men will be provided with 40 cartridges in boxes and two days' rations in haversacks.
Four days' extra rations of subsistence and three days' forage for animals, with 60 cartridges per man, will be loaded in wagons ready to move with the column.
Such of your well men as have not muskets will be supplied at once by requisitions upon the ordnance department or from men who are sick.
You will give directions to have such of your old tents cut up as may be necessary to supply deficiencies in shelter-tents. The men will march as light as possible, and will leave everything except what is absolutely necessary for the march.
The requirements of General Orders, No. 153, from these headquarters to be carried out at once in every particular where it does not conflict with these instructions.
Should you require more wagons than you have you will apply to the chief quartermaster.
By command of Major-General McClellan:
JAS. A. HARDIE,
Lieutenant-Colonel, Aide-de. Camp, Actg. Asst. Adjt. Gen.

GENERAL ORDERS No. 153.
HDQRS. ARMY OF THE POTOMAC,
Camp near Harrison's Landing, Va., Aug. 10,'62.
I. The following allowance of wagons is authorized: For the headquarters of an army corps, four.
For the headquarters of a division or brigade, three. For a battery of light artillery or squadron of cavalry, three. For a full regiment of infantry, six.
This allowance will in no case be exceeded, but will be reduced to correspond as nearly as practicable with the number of officers and men actually present. All means of transportation in excess of the prescribed standard will be immediately turned in to the depot with the exception of the authorized supply trains, which will be under the direction of the chief quartermasters of corps. The chief quartermaster of this army will direct the organization of the supply trains. II. The army must be prepared to bivouac when on marches away from the depots. The allowance of tents will therefore be immediately reduced to the following standard, and no other accommodations must be expected until a permanent depot is established:
For the headquarters of an army corps, division, or brigade, one wall-tent for the general commanding and one to every two officers of his staff.
To each full regiment, for the colonel, field, and staff officers, three wall-tents.
For all other commissioned officers, one shelter-tent each.
For every two non-commissioned officers, soldiers, officers' servants, and camp followers, as far as they can be supplied, one shelter-tent.
One hospital tent will be allowed for office purposes at corps headquarters, and one wall-tent at division and brigade headquarters.
All tents in excess of this allowance will be immediately turned in to the depots.
Tents of other patterns required to be exchanged for shelter-tents will be turned in as soon as the latter can be obtained from the Quartermaster's Department. Under no circumstances will they be allowed to be carried when the army moves.
III. The allowance of officers' baggage will be limited to blankets, a small valise or carpet-bag, and a reasonable mess kit. All officers will at once reduce their baggage to this standard. The men will carry no baggage except blankets and shelter-tents. The chief quartermaster will provide storage on the transports for the knapsacks of the men and for the officers' surplus baggage.
IV. Hospital tents must not be diverted from their legitimate use, except for offices, as authorized in paragraph II.
V. The wagons allowed to a regiment or battery must carry nothing but forage for the teams, cooking utensils for the men, hospital stores, small rations, and officers' baggage. One of the wagons allowed for a regiment will be used exclusively for hospital stores, under the direction of the regimental surgeon. The wagon for regimental headquarters will carry grain for the officers' horses. At least one and a haft of the wagons allowed to a battery or squadron will carry grain.
VI. Hospital stores, ammunition, quartermaster's stores, and subsistence stores in bulk will be transported in special trains.
VII. Commanding officers will be held responsible that the reduction above ordered, especially of officers' baggage, is carried into effect at once, and corps commanders are especially charged to see that this responsibility is enforced.
VIII. On all marches quartermasters will accompany and conduct their trains, under the orders of their commanding officers, so as never to obstruct the movement of troops.
IX. All quartermasters and commissaries of subsistence will attend in person to the receipt and issue of supplies for their commands, and will keep themselves constantly informed of the situation of the depots, roads, &c.
By command of Major-General McClellan:
S. WILLIAMS,
Assistant Adjutant-General
__________________
"Grumpy" Dave Towsen

Curt

[PogueMahone]

Re: I Hate Cute History

As Joe says, when describing the long march toward or from a big battle (a campaign) it means something different than the "Vicksburg Campaign."

Well, but that isn't what I was getting at, actually. My point was that there are two perspectives of the Vicksburg Campaign. There is Grant's army marching and fighting their way to invest Vicksburg and then there are Pemberton's men, in the city, building works and trenches, etc., but already on location and not really marching anywhere but across interior lines. Once Grant arrives at Vicksburg, his men start digging in and get settled in for the long haul. Until Vicksburg falls, it is all part of the Vicksburg Campaign, but a large part of it didn't involve marching many miles on a daily basis, as is inferred by the members of this forum in their answers.