Early War VMI

[Progressive88]

This may be too specific of a question, but I am interested in procuring an accurate uniform, representative of what would have been worn by the Corps of Cadets until the Spring of '61. After going through the Institute archives for quite a while, I just have a few questions... Is the standard .69 Cal Cartridge box what was carried during this period? Do the crossed belts have a specified plate on the chest, or just the blank brass? I noticed from pictures that the 40 button coatee is similar to what is used now, hopefully someone, somewhere reproduces it perhaps to original specifications?

As far as headgear is concerned, from etchings/drawings made of John Brown's execution, it seems as though the shako was a different design (more tapered) than what I am familiar with, does anyone know what sort of forage caps were used as well?

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Early War VMI

This may be too specific of a question, but I am interested in procuring an accurate uniform, representative of what would have been worn by the Corps of Cadets until the Spring of '61. After going through the Institute archives for quite a while, I just have a few questions... Is the standard .69 Cal Cartridge box what was carried during this period? Do the crossed belts have a specified plate on the chest, or just the blank brass? I noticed from pictures that the 40 button coatee is similar to what is used now, hopefully someone, somewhere reproduces it perhaps to original specifications?

As far as headgear is concerned, from etchings/drawings made of John Brown's execution, it seems as though the shako was a different design (more tapered) than what I am familiar with, does anyone know what sort of forage caps were used as well?

David,

I'm not an expert...but a few thoughts...on Cadet Uniforms...the cadets had several, and several more combinations.

Let me start by asking you a few questions...what is the intended use of the Early War VMI Cadet Uniform? Do you have an affiliation with the Institute?

Is the standard .69 Cal Cartridge box what was carried during this period?

No...since the cadets didn't use 0.69 cal. weapons during the period 1850-present...they did not have 0.69 cal. boxes. Prior to the start of the American Civil War (April 1861), the cadets were using what's called a parade box...this box was mean to be worn center of the back, and was not mean to hold cartridges (it was a show box)...on the center of the flap a lead filled brass plate was affixed; 2 variations (VMI and V.M.I.) the V.M.I. style being the style most prevalent from the period....several of these exists today.

At some point...the cadets were issued "new" cartridge boxes during the war, as they manned piquet post along the Allegheney Mtns. and were held in reserve for several operations (McDowell, Lynchburg, Cold Harbor)..and of course saw action at the Battle of New Market. One box exists from the War...documented to the Battle of New Market, and specifically to one Cadet C.R. Read...the same Read who took a Federal shell in the shoulder on top of Shirley's Hill (2 miles from the Field of Lost Shoes). That box is a 0.58 cal. Federal box produced by the E. Gaylord Company of Chicopee Mass.

Do the crossed belts have a specified plate on the chest, or just the blank brass?

Specific Plate...now that depends on what you define as specific...the plate is VERY close to what is worn by cadets today (a stamped brass plate...oblong and convex in shape), with one suddle difference...on the back of the plate 3-4 brass tines were soldered on, as opposed to the modern flat brass strips used...the intent of these tines was to pierce the white cotton webbing, so as to hold the webbing firmly in place. These are rather plain, as there is no engraving/markings on the front side of the plate.

I noticed from pictures that the 40 button coatee is similar to what is used now, hopefully someone, somewhere reproduces it perhaps to original specifications?

As far as headgear is concerned, from etchings/drawings made of John Brown's execution, it seems as though the shako was a different design (more tapered) than what I am familiar with, does anyone know what sort of forage caps were used as well?

OK...now the fun part.

During the period 1850-1861, the cadets had several styles of uniforms...and several uniform combinations to which these were worn:

I'll start with headgear:

M1839 Wheel Cap...modelled after the Federal/State Military Patterns of the time...these are seen in a variety of colors, from "black" meaning dark blue, "cadet grey", and black - really black from the oil cloth cap cover.

This cap was worn regularly as the duty cap up until 1859, when the Institute starts transitioning over to a "black" McDowell Brim forage cap (which was suppose to have VMI in brass letters afficed to the crown, an examination of contemporary photographs yields only one result the Parkins image showing the use of these black letters).

Shako: the shako pattern adopted about the mid-1850s was that of a rigid Beaver Felt "chasseur" style cap, with a patent leather brim and crown...to this an Brass Engineers Castle topped by a Virginia Crest was affixed to the front...for privates a simple pom-pom was attached...for cadet officers...a plume of feathers...don't worry see attached picture.

Jackets/Coats...

Duty/Dress Uniform was the Coatee....that'd be the fancy cadet grey broadcloth jacket with all those 44 brass buttons attached. Contrary to popular belief...VMI had it's own custom buttons made from the start of the Institute in 1839...so you won't see a VMI Coat with those damn ball buttons on it...production of these uniforms ceased in April of 1861. Sorry to inform you that no-ready made pattern/finished product exists for these of the period style...this would have to be custom made (project in the works).

I should clarify...following the war...production of the coatee began again ca. 1870?...and continues to this day...the pattern/buttons/frogging (black trim) on the post-war and modern coatees do NOT match what is seen on the original coats.



Fatigue Jacket...this is a plain untrimmed roundabout jacket with buttons ranging from 5-9 down the front. Pre-war specifications, denote the preffered fabric for this uniform was cadet grey cassimere for it's durability...During the period in question there were no buttons on the collar, or on the sleeves of the fatique uniform.

Blue Frock: By the time of the American Civil War, the blue frock coat was reserved solely for the use of First-Classmen for use on furlough. See image of "drillmasters" including Henry Burgwyn.

Overcoats: were made of the same cadet-grey broadcloth as the coatees...several pre-war images of these, including cadets John DeHart Ross, and Dobbins.

Trousers: 3 basic styles...first there's the summer pair (white linen/cotton trousers) and then the "winter" pair, those are the woolen trousers (made of cadet-grey broadcloth to be worn with the coatee)...and the fatigue pair (made of cadet-grey cassimere, and to be worn with the fatigue uniform). The woolen trousers may have black stripes down the outer seams of the trousers ranging from 1-2 inches.

Uniform of John Brown's Hanging:

This is funky...and includes the mention of an unknown uniform combination. That December...it was unusually hot when the cadets set out for John Brown's Hanging...

Red Wool Overshirt: Only mention of this "uniform" shirt is for the hanging...this was worn in lieu of the fatique jacket/coatee.

Overcoat: Overcoats were worn...in fact Edmund Ruffin borrowed an Overcoat and Cap to stand in ranks with the cadets at the hanging.

Trousers: would have been the Woolen Trousers

Cap: As this was the period before the McDowell Brim Forage Cap was adopted at the Institute...either the Wheel Cap...or the Beaver Felt Shako would have been worn.

I'm sure this will lead you to many more questions...and I'll be more than happy to answer these for you...just ask.

[-Jesse-]

Re: Early War VMI

I have a few VMI jackets(44 button).Send me a PM if your interested

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Early War VMI

OK a few pictures...there's lots more pictures out there...but this should provide some documentation, so one knows I'm not talking offhand...

Yah, I'm a nut for Pre-war/War-time VMI Stuff...

Paul B.

[Progressive88]

Re: Early War VMI

Paul - Thanks a lot for all that information. I have no affiliation to the Institute. I have however always been fascinated with everything VMI, especially during the prewar and Civil War years and would love to portray that period in an accurate way. Do you mind if I save your detailed post to a word document for my own future reference?

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Early War VMI

Paul - Thanks a lot for all that information. I have no affiliation to the Institute. I have however always been fascinated with everything VMI, especially during the prewar and Civil War years and would love to portray that period in an accurate way.

No problem...I fell in love with the Institute at the age of 4...and have spent the last 23 years of my life getting my hands on anything/everything Institute related (and still working to). Shoot me an email, and I will get you on our YahooGroup: paulboulden[at]hotmail.com

There are a few research projects I've got ongoing...and we'll provide you with a reading list (books, newspaper articles, etc...)

Do you mind if I save your detailed post to a word document for my own future reference?

Go ahead...that's why I posted what I did...seriously though, if you want to do Cadet stuff...then we need to talk...it's an ongoing impression I'm helping to build, (it won't be cheap)...and there's a few events coming up (in addition to the annual New Market event), where good VMI Cadet Impressions are needed.

Firearms:

M1851 Cadet Musket (VMI reveived the first 100 of these manufactured)

Spring of 1864: Cadets receive brand-spanking new M1854 Austrian Lorenze Rifles (used at Battle of New Market)...then travel to Richmond, VA, and by June are using P1853 British Enfield Rifle-Muskets.

Paul B.

[Progressive88]

Re: Early War VMI

Paul - I sent you an email. Let me know if it doesn't get through as i've been having trouble with it lately.

It looks like there are a few approved vendors who are reproducing some of the items needed to build this impression. I'm surprised it hasn't gathered more of a demand. It seems, from what i've researched, that even after the Spring of '61 there was an effort to maintain a uniform look within the ranks of the cadets. Jean cloth was common, but it looks to have been matched with the trousers. All of this is just my assumption based on what i've seen in the online archives run by the Institute.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Early War VMI

Paul - I sent you an email. Let me know if it doesn't get through as i've been having trouble with it lately.

Yep...got your email.

It looks like there are a few approved vendors who are reproducing some of the items needed to build this impression.

Nope...just two AC Approved Vendor currently producing any VMI Cadet related uniform items; Richmond Depot...produces a variation of the F.L. Smith jacket. Greg Starbuck has produced correct McDowell Brim Forage Caps, and Kepis for us.

Truthfully, I only know of one other Vendor pursueing the production of an accurate VMI Cadet anything...

I'm surprised it hasn't gathered more of a demand. All of this is just my assumption based on what i've seen in the online archives run by the Institute.

David,

It seems, from what i've researched, that even after the Spring of '61 there was an effort to maintain a uniform look within the ranks of the cadets.

Yep...Superintendant Francis H. Smith, makes it very clear...that this is a military school...and as such required uniformity to the greatest extent possible. As such, he's working his best to procure Fabric in mega lots 100yds. + at a time for the production of "runs" of uniforms.

That said, fabric wasn't always available for uniforms...and in a few documented cases...cadets are waiting months for the new stuff to come in from home...having fabric sent from home to be made into uniforms "on the cadet pattern" by Post Tailors Norgrove, Vanderslice, and eventually Adams....and lastly in a few rarer exceptions, cadets are having the uniforms made uptown by local tailors (this latter practice was adamantly prohibitted).

Jean cloth was common, but it looks to have been matched with the trousers.

OK..."common" is relative...the Sup. Francis H. Smith, makes it very clear that whenever possible cadets are to have their uniforms made solely from Cadet-Grey Cassimere...or Cadet-Grey Cloth (imported from England)...so much so, that they go through periods of "uniform confiscation" to "reorganize" the cadets in a more uniformed appearance...that said of the 5 wartime roundabout "fatique jackets" known to exists today...each is made of a different material:

• F.L. Smith jacket & trousers (New Market): Cadet Grey Cassimere
• F.L. Smith jacket (VMI): Cadet-Grey Broadcloth
• C. Anderson jacket (MoC): Some sort of plain jeans cloth...have yet to get a really good look at the jacket, as it's been on display for the last several years.
• Devereux jacket (NCMH-Raleigh): Oxford-Brown Left-Handed Twill Jeans
  
• A possible 5th jacket in a private collection is said to be made form a variagated jean...I saw pictures several years ago...but have not yet been able to track the owner down.

Bottom Line...the "goal" of the Cadet Fatique Impression should be to exhibit the commanality...not the differences between each of these uniforms...

Paul B.

[Kykeydet12]

Re: Early War VMI

i guess I ma be resurecting an old thread but i was searchign on this via paul's wishes. the actual shako as mentioned earlier was a design that was of a diesign that general Lee made for west point cadets when he was superintendent of the academy. it was followed very closely by VMI with a couple of the VMI specific changes.
The original shako that was used by cadets in 1839 when the institute was founded had an wide diameter top and was arched out, i shall try to attatch a picture below.
The shako design was changed to the design seen in the shepard image I shall try to attatch below. as far as I have been able to chat with col. gibson, this is the closest image we can find showin what a shako may have looked like in this period. this image was prior to the implementation of the virginia state seal that is on shako's and garrison covers now.
In post war the shako went into a period of shortening, it slowly became smaller and smaller much like that of the shako in the patton case seen in the institute museum today. it stayed this way until 1912 when it changed to the shako that we wear during parade today.

[ContinentalMorganGuard]

Re: Early War VMI

Reviving and old thread here, but I have a question about the Cadet round about jacket. I know it was on a specific pattern, but how is it constructed. Is it a 6 piece body and two piece sleeve like a RD jacket or is it something else? Thanks!

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Early War VMI

Robert,

Surviving jackets are more akin to the NC jackets with 6-piece body and single piece sleeves. I've had a pretty good look at a few of these out of the glass...what's your project?

Contact me: paulboulden@hotmail.com


Paul B.

RAH VA MIL '04

[LonestarRifles]

Re: Early War VMI

The cadet jackets seem to be pretty unique. Initially we thought they were 6 piece body, similar to the Richmond jackets, however when we were able to take Francis Lee Smith's uniform (at New Market Battlefield museum) out to look at it, we found something unusual (to us). I can only speak for this jacket, since it is the only one I have examined up close, however there are (I believe) four other cadet jackets around (one in the MOC, another in Raleigh, one here at VMI, and another in a private collection). F.L. Smith's jacket looked like a 6 piece body, but was in fact a 4 piece body with a large dart located in the fronts where the seam would be on a 6 piece jacket, that stopped approximately a half inch from the arm-scye. The sleeves are typical 2 piece, baggy as on the Richmond jacket.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.

-Pat