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**LibertyHallVols** · 04-09-2009, 07:20 AM

Re: Canteen Cover

That canteen cover looks more like a piece of Federal blanket.

Canteens were covered with scrap or discarded fabrics, like blanket remnants or (most commonly) jean cloth. A gray or gray-faded-to-tan jean cloth -or- an old wool blanket remnant can easily look like burlap in an on-line photo. So, I understand your confusion.

You might consider getting a copy of the new canteen book (I think EJ Thomas carries it) for more information. Also, you could go to www.ha.com, look at auction 6015 and search on "canteen". You will see great photos and detailed descriptions of a number of Federal canteens.

Also, here's a good article from the Stonewall Brigade's website:

Page not found

http://www.stonewallbrigade.com/articles_canteens.html

I hope this helps!

**lthull3rdla** · 04-09-2009, 07:31 AM

Re: Canteen Cover

This canteen appears to have a tin spout with a rolled lip, much like the 'western depot' or 'cinncinnati' depot style as described in O'donnels new book. Also I do not see a hole in the upper loops for a chain, so this all points for sure, I think, to a western depot canteen. Might be worth purchasing.
As for the cover it just might be falling apart from age and is showing its weave because of that, or it could just be covered
with Shoddy which was very common.
Notice the raised, rolled rim where the two halves are joined. I have seen that before but its not very common.
Ronnie

**Curt Schmidt** · 04-09-2009, 10:33 AM

Re: Canteen Cover

Hallo!

"I seem to remember that a survey that one of you did of original canteens and their covers and the color were overwhelmingly tannish in color."

In brief and to over-generalize...

A common color for canteen covers was logwood mordanted with iron dyed gray as it was a cheap dyestuff. Logwood was not light-fast, or color-fast, and "faded" from gray to tannish brown.
However, unmordanted logwood dyes tannish brown.
So there is some difference of opinion as to whether a item was dyed gray or tan to begin with (and rarely do we have the opportunity to look at undersides or in protected seams where UV light did not reach as much or at all.)

In any event, gray or gray fading to tan apears to be the NUG "most common" unless one is portraying a unit, time, and place where they may have had something else.

"Now the question, Do you think this canteen is federal or CSA first of all and secondly my current canteen is a bullseye with a perfectly good federal blue cover (not sky blue), should I even both swapping it out with a burlap cover even IF the aforementioned canteen is Federal."

As shared, it appears to be a tin spouted Cincy or Cincy contract canteen.

And as shared, I do not think the cover is "burlap" as burlap is not NUG a canteen cover material, and is a "over one, under one" weave of jute fiber whereas this looks like the twill-look "over one, under two (IIRC)" weave of a woolen blanket material (and not a wool/cotton jean blend).
So, IMHO, no you do not want to swap it our for "burlap."

Regarding replacing the blue, uniform wool blue is a PC choice, however,
it is not the most common. Andn that would be a choice based upon your Mental Picture and whether you unit has a standard for covers and cover colors, and/or you are trying for a more "by like company issuance" concept look or not.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

**world_warrior** · 04-09-2009, 10:33 AM

Re: Canteen Cover

That was an awesome article! Huzzah to the author! If others reading this post haven't clicked on the link and read it yet, I highly suggest it! I am going home now and ripping that Dark Blue Wool Cover off my bullseye!

This poses another question though, How about a woven HEMP sling for my canteen. I have one on there now and it rides on me perfectly, nice and high, as well as looking good. Would this type of sling be ok? I mean I don't mind stimulating somebody's economy by buying a good repro leather sling, but if I have one that is ok already.....

RJ

**Curt Schmidt** · 04-09-2009, 10:47 AM

Re: Canteen Cover

Hallo!

"This poses another question though, How about a woven HEMP sling for my canteen."

The answer would be...

1. What does research and documentation show for Company "E" of the
4th OVI for the time and place of the unit impression?

2. Failing that body of knowledge, what does research and documentation show for the use of cloth canteen straps made of what materials and weaves?

If the R & D shows while weaves varied from one arsenal/depot and contractor to another, and over time, but was made of white woven cotton duck or twill-woven cotton webbing, hemp would not be a correct choice.

(IMHO, it is a better approach to research and document first, and think second. "Thinking" first, without R & D, is NUG a slippery slope that leads to incorrect choices and wastes of time, energy, and money that are often regretted sooner than later.")

Curt

**world_warrior** · 04-09-2009, 12:05 PM

Re: Canteen Cover

See, this is why I need this forum. It's like when musiciams can't tell wether or not what they're playing is good. They need that outside observers' standpoint.

There isn't a whole lot of documentation specifically about my unit, so instead of being an exception to the rule, maybe the way to go would be the non-descript leather sling from a quality maker (not openly endorsing one maker vs another but if you have recommendations please PM me) From what I have been able to learn about my unit from the other members, we were issued whatever they had laying around in 61 and after that took the credo 'if it aint broke don't fix it'. Even at the end of the war there were guys carrying 42 springfields and sleeping with Mexican war blankets. So knowing this, the leather sling would be the way to go anyways?

RJ

**LibertyHallVols** · 04-09-2009, 12:13 PM

Re: Canteen Cover

Originally posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post

(IMHO, it is a better approach to research and document first, and think second. "Thinking" first, without R & D, is NUG a slippery slope that leads to incorrect choices and wastes of time, energy, and money that are often regretted sooner than later.")

Excellent Point, Curt!

"If they used it, they'd have had it"
-NOT-
"If they had it, they'd have used it"
:tounge_sm

**GBOB** · 04-09-2009, 01:20 PM

Re: Canteen Cover

In Mr. Mayo's website about Federal Canteens http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html there is a great photo of a 1858 smooth side that appears like that one. It is described as wool with a very high percentage of shoddy woven in that, over time, gives a burlap texture.

Just a thought...

Cheers

**GarrettG1993** · 04-09-2009, 01:37 PM

Re: Canteen Cover

There was a Confederate tin drum canteen with a burlap cover in A Photographic Guide to the Physical and Material Culture of Texas Soldiers. I know that may not be the exact title, but its close.

Regards,
Garrett Glover

**PogueMahone** · 04-09-2009, 02:17 PM

Re: Canteen Cover

Originally posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post

The answer would be...

1. What does research and documentation show for Company "E" of the
4th OVI for the time and place of the unit impression?

As I posted earlier this week, I think building your impression around a single unit is problematic in that most events build impression guidelines around the unit being portrayed for that event, which will rarely be the unit you have built an impression upon.

The better answer is to obtain both the leather sling and the cotton sling and use the one the event requires or requests. Flexibility in your impression is key. Having a single impression that is based on the 4th OVI, Co. E, is inflexible and might mean you won't meet impression requirements for a given event.

RJ,

Plan to build an impression over a period of time. Create as much flexibility in it as possible. Have both a forage cap and a Hardee hat. Leather canteen strap and cotton. Sack coat and dress. Obtain at least one of each item issued to a soldier. It will cost a small fortune, but in the end you will be happy that you can meet any guidelines demanded with ease.

**world_warrior** · 04-09-2009, 03:29 PM

Re: Canteen Cover

Just when I was getting ready to take the dark blue wool cover off my bullseye canteen......

Angelfire - error 404

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/uscanteen.html

Angelfire on Lycos, established in 1995, is one of the leading personal publishing communities on the Web. Angelfire makes it easy for members to create their own blogs, web sites, get a web address (domain) and start publishing online.

Any thoughts? Should I still take it off my canteen?

RJ

**Curt Schmidt** · 04-09-2009, 03:39 PM

Re: Canteen Cover

Hallo!

This may sound snarky when it was not intended as such, but...

"Regarding replacing the blue, uniform wool blue is a PC choice, however,
it is not the most common. And, that would be a choice based upon your Mental Picture and whether you unit has a standard for covers and cover colors, and/or you are trying for a more "by like company issuance" concept look or not."

It appears in your excitement and interest that you are asking questions you have already received answers for previously?

;) :)

Curt

**world_warrior** · 04-09-2009, 04:03 PM

Re: Canteen Cover

True,

Thanks for setting me back on the right rails Curt. Danke!

I just know that there's always going to be someone out there who says Dark blue wool covers are verboten and I'll just have to roll with it. I mean afterall, I've seen the originals and what they were covered in, and...I saw dark blue covers. And your right, I am excited. I need to put on my uniform and gear and have you guys get out your library cards so you can read me. Just get it all over with at once.
Everyone's very helpful though. And I don't take offense.

Hoping to meet everyone during the year. I have a feeling I'm going to be saying a lot of thank yous.

RJ

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