Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

[LibertyHallVols]

Gilham's manual contains instructions for forming a company (#216, http://www.47thva.org/gilham/article4.html#216 ).

I've been looking for it in both Hardee's 1855 and 1862 manuals, with no luck. Am I missing it somewhere?

Thanks!

[john duffer]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

I'm speaking at work sans library, but

You're not missing it. Mr Scott gives instructions for forming the company in the 1835 TACTICS and Gilham is repeating this with a few word changes. Hardee is not meant to replace Scotts but to give instruction in the latest manner of acting as light infantry and doesn't repeat things like forming up that should already be known. Gilham is meant to be more of an overall text. Oddly enough the 1831 French manual copied almost word for word by Scott doesn't have anything about forming the company so I'm not sure where it originated. Earlier US manuals used the English system with tall men on flanks, short in center.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

Thanks, John!

I don't have a copy of Scott's and don't see it on the "Drill Network". So, does one basically form a company as described in Gilham's #216?
(Pvt's and Cpl's in line by height, faced to the right; "Front"; "In two ranks, form company"; "Left-Face"; "March").

Presumably, before counting off, the orderly would designate sections and platoons and place the corporals.

That sound about right?

If anyone has the text from Scott, that'd be great, too!

Thanks!

[john duffer]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

The Drill Network http://home.att.net/~Rebmus/ScottsSotC.htm has SCOTT on line. IMHO one of the biggest holes in our drill knowledge is caused by the lack of a SCOTT'S TACTICS reprint. As you read the manuals in order you see that they're much more like dictionary updates wit a few items added and deleted rather than new efforts.



419. The whole company being assembled on its ground, the sergeants, by the command fall in, will cause the rank and file (corporals and privates) to form in one rank, faced to the right, and in the order of height from right to left, the tallest man on the right, (now head of the rank,) the next tallest man immediately covering the first, and so on to the left or rear of the rank, in which position will be placed the shortest man.

420. This being promptly effected by the sergeants, the first sergeant will command:

Front- FACE.



421. The left guide (second sergeant) will now place himself on the left of the rank, and the first sergeant will promptly command:



SCHOOL OF THE COMPANY



1. In three (or two) ranks, form company. 2.

By the left flank. 3. Left- FACE.

4. MARCH.



422. At the third command, the whole rank will face to the left, except the guide and the man on the left, who stand fast.

423. At the command march, the whole of the men who have faced to the left, will step off together; the second on third men, counting from the left, will place themselves in the centre and rear ranks respectively, behind the man next to the guide, and face to the front; the three following men will in like manner, on closing up, form the next file, and all the other men will come successively to form files, three deep, to the right of those already established.

424. Two ranks, from one, will be formed in like manner, and on the same principle.

425. The rank and file being formed in files, three (or two) deep, the captain will cause the files to be numbered from right to left, the platoons to be marked, and the officers, sergeants, corporals, (the latter by slight transposings, see No. 37,) pioneer, and filed music to be posted as prescribed, Title I.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

I missed the Scotts link on that site... Thanks!

I appreciate the help, John!

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

Thanks John for the quote, the link and the educated explanation...

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

Scott's Manual Reprint...that sounds like a novel idea.

Paul B.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

Scott's Manual Reprint...that sounds like a novel idea.

Paul B.

Pun alert!!!

[john duffer]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

I'm not sure what the printing expense versus profit potential would be plus I assume you have to destroy an original to copy it. I have a matching three volume set that was about $450 several years ago and I don't think they've gotten any cheaper. I see individual volumes occasionally that are somewhat reasonable. Anyone know anything about publishing ?

[Silas]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

Try google for the 1821 version of Scott :

MILITIA TACTICS.

PART II.

CONTAINS THE MODE OF FORMING COMPANY, POSITION OF OFFICERS, THE DIFFERENT MOVEMENTS OF A COMPANY, AND THE MANUAL EXERCISE OF OFFICERS AND NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICERS.

Also see the remarks at page 53.

[cprljohnivey]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

John:

PM me. I may have some answers for you that I don't want to post publicly.

[john duffer]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

"Try google for the 1821 version of Scott "

Silas

This is the English version I was speaking of earlier. There's also a version of this in his 1829 ABSTRACT OF TACTICS. It's pretty complicated to execute but the results are cool as even in a smaller company it gives the impression of even heights. My impression of the differences between English and French manuals is the expectation of a longterm but smaller professional army versus a large group of recruits called up each year.

[Seamus]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

RE: Reprint of Scott's:

Steve Abolt of the Seventh U. S. Infantry Living History Association had a reprint of Vol. 1, Schools of the Soldier and Company, Scott's Infantry Tactics, 1835, done in 1990. McCrain Publishing Company, Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas. He may still have a few copies on hand. His e-mail is: sacbg7@att.net.

This is the manual we use for Seminole War and Mexican War.

[Dignann]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

I'm not sure what the printing expense versus profit potential would be plus I assume you have to destroy an original to copy it.

Some years ago, the fellow who reprinted Gilham, Casey and Hardee's Revised looked into reproducing Scott. The problem he encountered was the fold out pages. If you look at an original set, there are numerous fold out pages and they are printed on very thin paper, almost like tracing paper. The printer he dealt with had difficulty locating the type of paper needed for the fold outs. Many of the fold outs are also folded numerous times. The printer indicated that each of the fold out pages would have to be folded by hand and inserted/glued by hand. In the end, it was deemed cost prohibitive for the market.

Eric

[john duffer]

Re: Drill Bits: Hardee's - Forming a Company?

Thanks Eric, that's kind of what I figured, especially since the market is probably four sales a year.