wearing jackets...or sling them

[PogueMahone]

i would have a hard time believing that a soldier would remove his jacket during Stones River/Murfreesboro,when it was fought from December 31, 1862, to January 2, 1863:sarcastic

You are, of course, correct, Jesse. Stones River and/or Murfreesboro did not exist prior to or after the battle. It was like some sort of Civil War "Brigadoon", only appearing during the time of the battle and then disappearing.

Dude, I didn't say "Battle of ...", I said associated with, as in a location.

I bet you think all Civil War battles were fought on Saturdays and Sundays, too, don't you?

[GrayGuerilla]

wearing jackets...or sling them

How goes it AC,

No search results lead me to find whether soldiers were forced to where their jackets in the heat of summer. Is there evidence that it was common practice to sling your jacket...

[hiplainsyank]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

In Don Troiani's Civil War, Brian Pohanka asserts in the text on "The Texas Brigade" (page 101) that many soldiers in the First Texas "stripped to their shirtsleeves before attacking Devil's Den." There are also a few photos from after the battle that show casualties in their shirt sleeves.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

If you want a picture, the attached sketch from Frank Leslie's magazine shows the defenders of Washington in July, 1864, including both VRC and "militia" (possibly federal employees) in shirtsleeves. Of course, none of them were very far from the rest of their wardrobes.

John Henry Otto, who left such a wealth of detail in his memoirs that I'll probably never stop citing him, mentions taking his coat off on the march to Perryville, then forgetting it. That decision cost him the equivalent of two weeks' pay.

[Tom Dodson]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

I find this thread very interesting. I have questioned the wearing of jackets at hot weather events before. I was informed it was proper military protocol and a soldier would wear his jacket/coat no matter how hot and even if it meant heat stroke or prostration. I have found that difficult to live by and I question whether a soldier would wear his jacket to the point that he would be incapacitated by the heat.
I will be greatly intersted to read any and all feedback on this subject.
Tom Dodson
47th Georgia

[lukegilly13]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

...even if it meant heat stroke or prostration.

The body cools itself by sweating to dissipate heat. Heat stroke most often occurs when the body cannot sweat enough (commonly due to dehydration) to dissipate heat and the body temperature rises. The coat holds the sweat against the body not allowing it to evaporate. Shirt sleeves are much thinner and can be dried by the wind/sun/etc causing the lack of moisture. In other words, I think the purpose of leaving the coat on is to prevent heat stroke...it feels hotter, but in reality your body is cooler. It also prevents the sun from beating directly on the skin. Whether all this was known in the period or not I do not know.

I had a player one time almost reach the dangerous state...he was fine until he removed his shoulder pads....steam of course rushed from his body...he quickly became weak and sick at his stomach. The Dr. told me the above information. Something to think about!!!

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

Here's another sketch, from the September 24, 1864 issue of Harper's, showing troops in the trenches, two of whom are in shirtsleeves:

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/civil-war/1864/september/trench-warfare.htm

If you check out the Library of Congress Prints and Photographs collection of civil war photos, you'll see some other examples.

As with all things, though, you have to think through the situation. If the soldiers occupy a fixed position, like those in the sketches I've shown, then it makes sense that they might lay their jackets aside. If they have dropped their packs to make a charge, they might lay their jackets aside.

However, as Otto stated, there was a cost to laying aside gear to the soldier, and that it was felt at Army level was reported by Rufus Ingalls, Quartermaster of the Army of the Potomac, in a report of May 29, 1863, to QMG Meigs. Ingalls, after discussing the tendency of soldiers to shed excess articles, states that unless provisions are made to stow gear well in the rear, the soldier ought to carry it in battle.

So if, by mid-war, U.S. Army doctrine called for soldiers to carry knapsacks into battle, it seems that occasions when they could cast aside their coats would become increasingly rare.

Granted that the doctrine wasn't inflexible or universally enforced -- I've read in the Army and Navy Journal that troops sometimes cut their haversacks loose for fear they'd tear away anyhow during the attack (I don't want to pay for anything that authentic, myself :) ), and Ingalls himself recommends that for short marches the men simply carry blanket rolls -- but there are official and practical reasons for not putting the coat aside.

Another consideration is that a properly made and worn sack coat or jacket is as much protection from the heat as an aggravation of it. Others can probably elaborate better than me -- I just have a memory of firing twenty rounds in my shirtsleeves at the 140th Bull Run and then being ordered to shoulder arms. Ouch!

[Tom Dodson]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

Just a genuine question here not meant to cause any argument. I thought it was the sweat evaporating that cooled the body. Maybe I am wrong. It won't be the first or last time for that.
I took part in the 140th Manassas event at Leesburg, Va. with the 6th NCST. After morning drill in that NC sack coat, I did the rest of the event in shirtsleeves. I don't believe I would have survived otherwise.
Tom Dodson
47th Ga

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

Luke,

Your explanation came out a bit jumbled up and didn't make all that much sense.

The reason we sweat is so that the sweat can evaporate and cool us. Dehydration is the body using all it's fluids (and key mineral content like salt for instance) due to sweating. Thus, keeping the jacket on and not allowing the sweat to evaporate and cool yourself would add to the stress of heat, all while your body continued to dehydrate.

Keep in mind too that not all shirts were markedly thinner. Some cotton shirts were but the Federal army produced and issued a very large number of wool shirts. Wool is not a fabric noted for getting wet and drying quickly, thus you again lose the benefit of the cooling effect.

I've read through a fair number of diaries, journals, and letters and can't recall a single instance of a soldier mentioning taking off his coat to cool. Plenty of mention of suffering from the elements (both cold and heat), shoes wearing down to nothing, and lack of adequate food and water. I would definitely love to hear of documented cases of soldiers on the march taking off jackets due to heat.

It does make you think about how friggin miserable summer (and winter) campaigning was for those guys. Here in central Arkansas the temps hit about 100 last week when I mowed the lawn. I was out for about two hours in the early afternoon and as I pushed the mower along I thought about the poor sods sucking it up under Sherman and Johnston in the campaign for Atlanta. Albert Castel in his fine piece "Decision in the West" cites several examples (from the Federal side I recall) of soldiers suffering heat stroke and dying. The straggling alone in such conditions had to have been significant.

At Into the Piney Woods, we got a sense of how a grand movement of men in hypothermic conditions felt. The men who fought in the Red River Campaign in the spring of 1864 endured very similar conditions. Larry Morgan mentioned an account from one of Dick Taylor's cavalrymen who wrote that his saddle and tack was literally coming apart after a week in the rain with no let-up.

The retreat from Perryville and the pell-mell flight following the Franklin/Nashville debacle are also great examples of moving in the cold. The advance into Kentucky as well as the movement into Maryland are examples of trying times in the heat when men literally wore their shoes and clothing apart on the move. Burnside's Mud March is another chapter in the misery of men on the move.

Sorry for straying a bit. The fighting was hell enough. Getting to the famed battles we love to read about was often as bad or worse as the fights themselves. The reenactorism of taking off jackets in the hot weather seems to me something done out of modern weakness rather than documented period practice.

Look up at the name of the website and do some thinking folks.

[Old Reb]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

Giving modern examples and personal opinions is not a substitue for research. The question of whether Civil War soldiers ever removed their jackets due to heat is a good one. To throw out modernisms deverts from that original question. I do know that on Doniphans New Mexico Expedition durning the Mexican War the 1st Missouri Volunteers were told to keep their jackets on even though the temperatures were near 100 degrees while passing through New Mexico. They passed up the information to the commanders if they weren't allowed to take off their jackets, they would simply go home. After all, they were volunteers! They were allowed to remove their jackets. Now, I realize that is a prior war from the one the original question was directed, but I site it as an example of documented evidence of soldiers removing their jackets. Now, if someone will research a bit, they might find documentation concerning Civil War soldiers and we can avoid hearing football stories and modern occurences. Afer all, this forum was originally intended to be a place where documentation was presented, not opinions and modern references. Perhaps it would be a really good thing if that was the way it was handled.

[Tom Dodson]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

"Look up at the title of the website and do some thinking folks."
Yes, this is the AUTHENTIC Campaigner. We have all read accounts of Stonewall Jackson's men falling out and becoming heat casualities on the superhuman march to Second Manassas. We know of the men baking in the fields around Gettysburg. The battles at Atlanta in the July heat would have strained human endurance to the utmost.

Tom Dodson
47th Ga

[Old Reb]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

The original question concerned documentation of Civil War soldiers removing their jackets. That is a valid question and deserves a researched, documented answer and not opinions of what "we" should do, or what "we" have done, or what "we" should or should not do because we are not real Civil War soldiers.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

Folks,

The initial question in this thread is a good one for us to consider. However, let's try not to impose our 21st Century limitations on the discussion. Rather, let's stick to documented evidence of what was done in the period.

Thank you for your understanding.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

Let's try once more.

The original question asked whether soldiers commonly slung their jackets.

We have period accounts, sketches, and photographs showing some soldiers under some circumstances went in their shirt-sleeves; I've cited a few above. Beyond that, for some soldiers the uniform was their shirt-sleeves (e.g., http://www.gtg1848.de/ ).

So it happened and under certain circumstances an "authentic campaigner" will authentically campaign in their shirt.

On the other hand, we have personal and organizational reasons for the soldiers who had coats and jackets to keep them and their equipage on, and the overwhelming evidence of other illustrations and accounts to indicate that they did so most of the time.

The question of whether we can call an occasional practice by some soldiers common, I'll leave to the person who asked it. If it's a "reenactorism" to sometimes take your coat off, it's just as much a "campaignerism" to suggest that no one ever did.

Impact on health shouldn't really come into it unless we can say with some certainty that wearing coats and jackets threatens more harm than not. I don't think so, but I wouldn't slam someone for not hurting themselves; everyone has to make their own call on that, and everyone should make their own call on that.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: wearing jackets...or sling them

Some things to keep in-mind with this question:
Is the soldier on-duty or not?
If on duty, what duties are they performing?

There are a number of photos of work details where some men in shirt sleeves. If I'm digging a ditch, sinks, graves, or a trench in the summer in the deep south, I'd probably take off my jacket.

A number of the "battle" artworks show men in shirt sleeves. Again, I think there are some situations where that might make sense. For example, if one is in a fixed position (perhaps having been there for some time), it might be more reasonable to remove a coat. However, when one is on the move, it doesn't seem as likely, based on what I've seen in this thread so far.

'nuther thing to consider with artworks: Artistic license!
How many Civil War battle scenes feature some guy in the fore ground in a red shirt? I'd bet the artist is trying to draw the viewer's eye to a particular part of the picture, rather than make a statement about the relative frequency of jacketless men in red shirts.