bayonet and scabbard

[PetePaolillo]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Authentic-U-S-socket-bayonet-and-scabbard-Civil-War_W0QQitemZ320412984418QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9a1a2462&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Here is the description from seller. "This auction is for a Civil War US Military Issue Bayonet and metal scabbard with attached leather frog and brass swivel belt hanger marked "US" in circle. Type used with .58 caliber 1861 Springfield Rifle and similar. A penny falls through the socket which I'm told means the bayonet is an 1855-1870"

This is a scabbard I have not seen before. Can anybody tell me about it and what time period? I don't think it is Civil War period but thought I would present it for discussion.
Thanks.

[CSchneider]

Re: bayonet and scabbard

1873 pattern, I believe.

-Craig Schneider

[Blair]

Re: bayonet and scabbard

Pete,
It is a post CW scabbard. Trapdoor Springfield period.
The bayonet may or may not be CW. The blade of the socket bayonets were identical, only the socket size changed starting in 1870.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: bayonet and scabbard

I found a another one somewhere else and it is described as a M-1885 HOOK FROG SCABBARD with an 1873 model bayonet. Thanks guys for the help. I was figuring it was post war for sure...

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: bayonet and scabbard

Should of called me Pete, I could have saved you the trouble! Thats the same type I wear on my kit at the museum when interpreting Span Am War as a volunteer with the 73 Springfield (trapdoor).

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: bayonet and scabbard

Hallo!

Correct...

It is the Emerson M1885 scabbard.

It was intended to go with the simplified Mills web cartridge belt that omitted the previous experimental three "D" suspension rings system recalled in 1883.
The soldier merely hooked the hook over the belt or through an empty cartridge loop.

It was the final regulation socket bayonet and scabbard and lasted less than a decade as the new M1892 Krag-Jorgensen kife bayonet replaced it in first-line service. But it continued on as long as the M1873 "Trapdoor" remained in service among second tier troops and national guard units.

I did not go down and try to pass a penny through the sockets, but an M1855 socket bayonet has an ID of 25/32ths while the smaller socketed M1873
is 23/25ths.

In Ye Olde Daze, I used to check M1873 bayonets being passed off as M1855's by sticking a finger in the socket as a test. Of course, that works only for me as other lads have differently sized fingers.

:)

Curt

[Blair]

Re: bayonet and scabbard

The barrel of an original Springfield at the front sight is, .781. The socket of the bayonet must be slightly larger to fit over this dimension. My original bayonet measures .785 and fits perfectly to the barrel I just described.
There maybe very slight modifications to these measurements depending on the contractor.
Just for those that do not have calipers to measure a penny, it mics out at .750 to .751 depending on whether it's copper clad aluminum or real copper penny. Not a good tool to use when finding a CW socket bayonet.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: bayonet and scabbard

Should of called me Pete, I could have saved you the trouble! Thats the same type I wear on my kit at the museum when interpreting Span Am War as a volunteer with the 73 Springfield (trapdoor).

Ross, it totally slipped my mind that you do Span Am as well.:D....You guys never let me down. Thanks for all the info. Much appreciated!!!....I love perusing EBAY. They have some neat finds pretty often, but usually the info is wrong most of the time. people don't know what they have!!