Some campaigner questions!!

[rbrewer]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Does anyone have photo's of original tooth brush's they would be willing to share, I had no luck with the search feature other than discussions.
There are some vendors selling repro tooth brush's, but I would like to see some originals.
Thank you
Bob Brewer
Gaithersburg,MD

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Hallo!

Moderator hat on...

While interesting and intriguing, anecdotal, heresay, and family stories are below the standard of the AC Forum for researched and documented practices of actual Civil War soldiers and civilians.

For example, in 1912 my grandmother was given crackers with several drops of turpentine on them to cure worms. It does not document what CW soldiers (or civilians) actually may or may not have done for worms.

Please keep the discussion "Period."

Danke.

Curt
Curmdugeony, contumacious, campaigner clan Mess

[misskte]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

"While it wouldn't be uncommon for a soldier to have a proper toothbrush(imho). You must remember that some of these fellas were from so far back in the woods that they might not have ever even SEEN a toothbrush, much less scraped up a few cents(or dollars) to BUY one."

Dear Sir,
While some older styles of clothing, such as small fall trousers, still exist by the 1860's (referencing the pair documented to a Confederate combatant at Antietam) illustrate that trends (be it fashion, goods, or ideologies) do have a period of seriation, to state that these "fellas were from so far back in the woods" that they had no connection to contemporary goods, basic amenities, or the means to enter into the marketplace should not be made as a blanket statement.

For an eighteenth-century precedent for this trend, please see:
Martin, Ann Smart. Buying into the World of Goods: Early Consumers in Backcountry Virginia. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2008. (especially chapter 4, "Living in the Backcountry: Styles and Standards)

I must also second Mr. Gruber's recommendation of Kathleen Brown's Foul Bodies.

Moreover, in the Industrial climate of nineteenth-century America, we must remember that many items such as toothbrushes were mass produced and readily available. If you have interest in the availability of such items and their presence in the Civil War, you might benefit from visiting your local cultural resource management firm, university archaeological department, or your state's Department of Historic Resources office. There you might find archaeological reports from battlefields or winter encampments, in which the presence of hygienic artifacts such as toothbrushes will be quantified and reported.

Humbly,
Kate Egner
AGSAS

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Bob
You may find some excellent profile shots of 19th C toothbrush in Echos of Glory. Both Union and Confederate. I beleive there are three total.

Furthermore I would like to second Miss Egner's comments concerning Ann Martin's book. While referring to the 18th century back country market in this case in Franklin County Va and the surrounding regions the same principles apply to the "back country" during the 19th Century.

Lastly looking into archeological reports is a phenomenal idea. Reports and catalogs of items will often come with color glossy photos and toothbrushes are sure to be found. Due to the level of standards that archaeologists are held to, the items (in this case the proverbial toothbrush) will be documented in their situ. This will allow you to accurately tell within the confines of a winter encampment whether officers or enlisted men have them and what other items are found alongside them.

We must not forget that personalities and personal hygiene practices while subject to different tools are still contingent upon personal choices. (We see people today who value hygiene differently than others) While a soldier on campaign may have chosen not to carry one with him, their availability in dry good stores should not be discredited.

[David Fox]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

From neolitic times, each human came equipped with an M1A1 forefinger which, w/ a tad of salt, works as a toothbrush after a fashion. And the photo of Pvt. Mott earlier in this tread, besides portraying an outstanding impression, displays two such forefingers! Tho' a question initially raised was: what did the Boys of '61 do in lieu of toothbrushes, you'll recall Col. Arthur Freemantle, tagging along as an observer with the ANV in June, 1863, noted the only alleged uniformity among Hood's Texicans (I believe it was Hood's troops) was the toothbrush each had stuck in a jacket buttonhole rather like a boutonniere.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Echoing Drew, Kate and Curt, I would encourage us to remember our forum is about documenting experiences of people in the past but of people who lived during the American Civil War.

Dental hygine is something that was handled with as much or as frequent care in the past as in the present. As Mary Chesnut fled from South Carolina fearful of Sherman's onslaught through her home state she rented a room at the home of a Miss McLean in Lincolnton, North Carolina. Chesnut recorded that Miss McLean was "a cousin of the Brevards--Haynes, &c&c of South Carolina, also a near relative of Mrs. Stonewall Jackson and Mrs. D.H. Hill." Mrs. Chesnut described her "young landlady" as "one of the beauties, the belles, the heiresses of the place." The lady played guitar and was a "lady...in manners and taste!" However, Mrs. Chesnut complained "she does not brush her teeth, the first evidence of civilization, and lives amidst dirt in a way that would shame the poorest overseer's wife." (C. Vann Woodward, ed. Mary Chesnut's Civil War (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1981, 719-720).

Of course the price of tooth brushes rose dramatically during the war in the blockaded South. It does not mean however that they were not purchased or that tooth brushes did not come into ports. For example:

SAVANNAH [GA] REPUBLICAN, August 11, 1862, p. 2, c. 3
A Chance to Get Tooth Brushes.—Everybody knows how impossible it has become, now-a-days, to get a good English tooth brush. At the recent sale of imported European goods, the lot of tooth brushes, in consequence of their very great scarcity, excited much competition. There were many eager bidders from several States of the Confederacy; but as the people of Charleston and its neighborhood needed the article as much as our more distant friends, Messrs. Stevenson & Co., were determined that the brushes should remain here, and purchased the lot at the very extravagant price of $18.50 per dozen. The purchase was made with a view to accommodate our people and to supply a universal want. The brushes will be sold at retail by Messrs. Kenifick & Skrine at a slight advance on the above cost price.
[Charleston Mercury.
We recommend to Georgians, before submitting to any such blockade imposition, to go back to the primitive black gum and hickory bark.



SAVANNAH [GA] REPUBLICAN, September 9, 1862, p. 3, c. 3

Dry Goods,
Etc., Etc.

Ladies' Silk Under Vests
11-4 & 12-4 White Bed Quilts
Ladies' Mode Colored Hose
Black Thibet Shawls
Silk Sleeve Linings
Tooth Brushes
Wide Linen Braid
White Tarletans
Mull Muslins
Just received and for sale by
DeWitt & Morgan.

(http://www.uttyler.edu/vbetts/savann...lican_1862.htm)

[MARSHALL] TEXAS REPUBLICAN, November 25, 1864, p. 2, c. 5

Scarce and Rare.

Indelible Ink, Red Ink, Black Ink, Mucilage, Letter Copying Books, Copying Presses, Cod Liver Oil, Scrap Books, Violins, Guitars, Perforated Paper, Blotting Paper, Black Sand, Sand Boxes, Inkstands, Paper Cutters, Piano Music, Spectacles, and Tooth Brushes.
James Burke,
Houston, Texas.

(http://www.uttyler.edu/vbetts/marsha...,%201863-5.htm)

A variety of factors have to be considered as to dental hygine but it was not because people were not familiar with tooth brushes and cleaning agents.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

A soldier could fashion one from 1 of the 40 pieces of lead in his cartridghe box. Just shape into a long slender shape w/point. Viola' a lead pencil.

I am perplexed. Shall I explain to you that a pencil "lead" is made of graphite and not metal? Or shall I simply ask you if your mother had any children that lived?

What to do ... what to do ...

[rbrewer]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Thanks Drew, I found this on line, artifact (tooth brush) from Johnsons Island POW camp, and most likely not typical to the everyday ordinary.
Also- while cking out this link, click on the archeology link to see what else they've been digging up at this site in the last few years.

http://www.archaeology.org/0801/etc/artifact.html

Sincerely
Bob Brewer
Gaithersburg,MD

[colorsgt26nc]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

I am perplexed. Shall I explain to you that a pencil "lead" is made of graphite and not metal? Or shall I simply ask you if your mother had any children that lived?

What to do ... what to do ...

And yet...

http://www.corinthcivilwarrelics.com/dug120.html

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

From pencils.com:
"In ancient Rome, scribes wrote on papyrus (an early form of paper) with a thin metal rod called a stylus, which left a light but readable mark. Other early styluses were made of lead. Today we still call the core of a pencil the "lead" even though it is made from nontoxic graphite.

Graphite came into widespread use following the discovery of a large graphite deposit in Borrowdale, England in 1564. Graphite left a darker mark than lead, but was so soft and brittle that it required a holder. At first, sticks of graphite were wrapped in string. Later, the graphite was inserted into wooden sticks that had been hollowed-out by hand! The wood-cased pencil was born."

I have encountered advice to use lead as a marking device in the late 20th century, so the idea may have been around in the 19th. However, I doubt it was any more common then than it is now.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Hallo!

Moderator hat on, again...

I hate to be curmudgeony, but I hate repeating myself in the same thread.

We should be sharing Period references not modern opinions about what was around in the 19th century.

While we could perhaps tease about a "viola" being a musical instrument and not lead pencil, there is no need for comments about mothers.

Modern pencil "lead" is not enitirely graphite, but rather a mix of graphite and clay, the mix being adjusted to make the "lead" harder or softer. (Except for "blacklead" pencils that are a mix of carbon and clay.)

Curt

[misskte]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Jonathan, here's a reference to a Confederate carrying a toothbrush even while in light marching order:

"I wore a cartridge box and bayonet holder on my belt. Extra cartridges were placed in pockets. Around my shoulder hung my wool blanket and a captured Yankee gum (poncho) in which I wrapped my few belongings- a comb, toothbrush and powder. I also had a haversack in which my plate, knife, spoon and fork rested with what few meager rations we received. I tied my coffee boiler to my canteen to be ready to scoop up water at the first well or creek we passed."
Found at http://www.nps.gov/archive/gett/gettkidz/reb.htm

Humbly,

[D.W. Scalf]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Miss Kate,

I think that the use of the words "might" and "some fellas", and not "ALL fellas". would keep my statement from being a "blanket" one. If you notice, I said that "in my opinion" toothbrushes would have not been uncommon in the armies of the 1860's. I didn't say that every Confederate soldier had a twig in his teeth and a rope belt, ala Jethro Bodine.

Many of these young men had never travelled more than a few miles from where the place where they were born. Notice I say "many" not "all". There would have been items quite common to the rest of the country that these men would have never have had occassion to see, much less own.

I'm not basing this on just what I think might have happened, I'm basing it on first person conversations with family members who grew up in rural Alabama...not in the 1860's, but in the early 1900's. They used willow twigs because even in the early 1900's in rural Alabama, amongst many working class families, there was zero spare money on hand to buy things for which inexpensive substitutes could easily be found. My great-great aunt told me stories that back this up, on numerous ocassions. Rest her soul.....she passed away 5 years ago, and was a wealth of information.

I'm also using as an example the last will and testament of my GGgrandfather. In this document were listed ALL of his wordly possesions. Listed were such items as a few forks, spoons, plates, items of clothing, etc. He was not a dirt poor sharecropper, he owned land. These few personal items were listed in great detail. Now the fact that there was no toothbrush listed doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't own one. But the list does illustrate that he had relatively few material possesions.

I'm not trying to make a "blanket statement" that people in the rural south in the 1860's were cavemen. But having grown up there and spoken very often with the "old folks", I'd tend to put my money on what they said, rather than comparing toothbrushes to clothing fashions trends of the day. Hard to make trousers out of twigs, but not so hard to make a toothbrush ;) Like comparing apples and oranges. And by the way, according to my GGAunt, oranges were quite a rare treat in rural Alabama in the early 1900's. You were extremely blessed to get ONE on Christmas Day.

Respectfully,
D.W. Scalf

[D.W. Scalf]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Okay Fellas(and ladies),

After going back over some previously unread posts on this thread, I see that I as well as some others have been thoroughly scolded for using info that we had gleaned from older family members. I'll admit that GG-Aunt Lela wasn't alive during the WBTS, and that she might not have even had a clue what the heck she was talking about. And that EVEN if it was true what she said, that my family may have been very atypical. So please disregard any of my previous post that offends the more academic among us. So I'll leave it at that.

This thread was supposed to be about viable authentic substitutes for toothbrushes and pencils, we have digressed.

No need for any further chastising, or comments about anybody's Mama(shame shame).

D.W. Scalf

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Some campaigner questions!!

Hallo!

Moderator hat on for the third time.

"...that offends the more academic among us. So I'll leave it at that."

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate." -Strother Martin, 'Cool Hand Luke'

It is not what offends the more academic among us, it what the standards, culture, and expectations of the AC Board are.

In 1948, my father got out of the Army Air Corps, with a notion that he did not care to brush his teeth any longer. So he never brushed again. Growing up, I recall my father's teeth to be yellow, green, and mossy looking. Our dentist, educated and equipped in the 1920's, had two procedures- fillings and extractions. Eventually my father lost all of his teeth at an early age, and had to get dentures.
ALL of my father's family lost all of their teeth by their 40's or 50's.
That may have been a practice or tradition going back to my Civil War ancestors. Or not.
Or could be discussed as how our modern notions of oral hygiene and dentistry get carried over to our CW era impressions and personae based on Modern Thinking OR documented examples of Period references.

Please keep the discussion to Period references.

Curt