Western Hats

[PrettyBoyDonovan]

Allright, I've decided to clean up my act. From now on I'm only going to ask and say things that bring some good clean discussion to the site.

I've recentley purchasased a Bomar frock coat to better my Western impression. Now I've found out my hat dosen't look right at all with it. In many photos and especially paintings, I've seen that many Western Confederates are wearing Kepis instead of slouch hats. I also read this was the case because the in the Western theater matierial was scarce and kepis were easier to make is this true?

Also, what do you recomend I do with my headgear situation?

Andrew, all "how to" or "what is best" type questions belong in the Camp of Instruction" folder. Thanks - Mike Chapman

[PrettyBoyDonovan]

Re: Western Hats

Andrew, all "how to" or "what is best" type questions belong in the Camp of Instruction" folder. Thanks - Mike Chapman

Sorry. I'll try and be more careful as to what goes with what.

May I add if anyobdy knows of any good Kepi makers. I know of Starbuck, but are there any more?

[ewtaylor]

Re: Western Hats

Allright, I've decided to clean up my act. From now on I'm only going to ask and say things that bring some good clean discussion to the site.

I've recentley purchasased a Bomar frock coat to better my Western impression. Now I've found out my hat dosen't look right at all with it. In many photos and especially paintings, I've seen that many Western Confederates are wearing Kepis instead of slouch hats. I also read this was the case because the in the Western theater matierial was scarce and kepis were easier to make is this true?

Also, what do you recomend I do with my headgear situation?

Andrew, all "how to" or "what is best" type questions belong in the Camp of Instruction" folder. Thanks - Mike Chapman

Actually, you can't go wrong with either. It was a personal preference of the soldier which he liked better, East or West.
hope this helps,
ewtaylor
bluegrass rifles

[SCSecesh]

Re: Western Hats

Andrew,
Don't mean to be a naysayer here, but why did you purchase a Bomar Frock to better your Western Confederate Impression? The coat was likely made in Charleston at Porter Industrial School for a member of the Washington Light Infantry. Bomar served at 1st Manassas; was wounded and likely rec'd the coat in the hospital before mustering out.
On an entirely different slant, from who did you get the Bomar? There are a few interesting but important details in that frock that differiniate it from others. Often times that coat is picked up as a repro because of the extensive machine sewing in the original, however a properly done Bomar is not as easy as it first appears. Are the inside facings extremely wide(see image below)? Is the back lining done in one piece (the outer body on the other hand is two pieces)(see image below)? Are the buttons puched through the right facing and held on with twill tape(see image below)? Are the tail pocket openings (accessible from the outside) fairly low in the skirt folds? Eagle V buttonns on the front?? Impossible detail at present!!
If you'd like more info on the Bomar or images of the original send me a private message and I'll happily oblige! (One of these days I'll forward all the Bomar images to Paul for the originals section of this board!!)

[ewtaylor]

Re: Western Hats

Andrew,
Don't mean to be a naysayer here, but why did you purchase a Bomar Frock to better your Western Confederate Impression? The coat was likely made in Charleston at Porter Industrial School for a member of the Washington Light Infantry. Bomar served at 1st Manassas was wounded and likely rec'd the coat in the hospital beofre mustering out.
On an entirely different slant, from who did you get the Bomar? There are a few interesting but importatn details in that frock that differiniate it from others. Often times that coat is picked up as a repro because of the extensive machine sewing in the original, however a properly done Bomar is not as easy as it first appears. Are the inside facings extremely wide? Is the back lining done in one piece (the outer body on the other hand is two pieces)? Are the buttons puched through the right facing and held on with twill tape? Are the tail pocket openings (accessible from the outside) fairly low in the skirt folds?
If you'd like more info on the Bomar or images of the original send me a private message and I'll happily oblige! (One of these days I'll forward all the Bomar images to Pual for the originals section of this board!!)

David,
Ben Tart sells these off his website for $170.00. They have become the "choice" of people on a budget. If these are a specific scenerio type coat this should be made aware on this forum before too many people end up wasting their money. It would be ashame for someome to put that much money into a coat and then be turned away at an event. Event organizers should chime in here.
ewtaylor
bluegrass rifles

[PrettyBoyDonovan]

Re: Western Hats

Well, its a confusing subject. Our battalion is made up of units that represent all sorts of impressions. We portray a mid-war ANV unit, while our pards portray the Orphan Brigade. Our command staff recentley made the decision to go with a frock coat for a more uniformed look. We refer to it as the 'Bomar' though that may not be the correct name. We're more focused on drill and manuvering than look, but it was researched and the frock was chosen.

And I should clarify. I've ordered one, but haven't recieved it yet. I plan on getting it from Randall County (Randy McLemore). I think he may have a site but I can't remember it. It may not be the "Bomar" but more of a generic frock.

Andrew,
Don't mean to be a naysayer here, but why did you purchase a Bomar Frock to better your Western Confederate Impression? The coat was likely made in Charleston at Porter Industrial School for a member of the Washington Light Infantry. Bomar served at 1st Manassas was wounded and likely rec'd the coat in the hospital beofre mustering out.
On an entirely different slant, from who did you get the Bomar? There are a few interesting but importatn details in that frock that differiniate it from others. Often times that coat is picked up as a repro because of the extensive machine sewing in the original, however a properly done Bomar is not as easy as it first appears. Are the inside facings extremely wide? Is the back lining done in one piece (the outer body on the other hand is two pieces)? Are the buttons puched through the right facing and held on with twill tape? Are the tail pocket openings (accessible from the outside) fairly low in the skirt folds?
If you'd like more info on the Bomar or images of the original send me a private message and I'll happily oblige! (One of these days I'll forward all the Bomar images to Pual for the originals section of this board!!)

[SCSecesh]

Re: Western Hats

I have not seen them on his website. Ben Tart has had the opportunity to see the original Bomar and as well, has my entire collection (well, almost!!) of Bomar images and notes. He and I have sat a while and discussed the nuances of the coat and at last view had of one of his repros, it was down to a level that reflect the pricing he's offering - not perfect but better than many! Heck, it was not even unheard of to get a cell phone call from Ben while on a recent business trip, so that he could get some of the details correct!! It's my understanding that another well respected tailor may soon be visiting the SCCRR to see the coat and possibly attempt a repro.
As to event specifics, the Bomar without the tape trim on the collar, should fit in most if not all scenarios which require "frock coats". My earlier comments regarding the provenance of the frock were more for clarification of said frock than condemnation of it's use.
This coat is largely machine sewn and without skirt lining, therefore, it's my belief that it is being repro'd because some think it "simple" - that it is not!! Simpler than some but still not simple!!
The image sent to me of the "alleged" Bomar frock is not even a good copy of the Bomar's exterior details.

[County Militia]

Re: Western Hats

While looking at photographs of Western units, I've found slouch hats - particularly the beehive style - to be the most common type of headware.

As to the material point, I have never heard it before, but it certainly doesn't mean that it's false. Wouldn't a kepi or a forage cap use more material than a slouch?

Just take a look at what the two styles are made of:

Kepi/Forage Cap

*Leather bill
*Leather strap
*Wood or hard material for the hard top crown
*button for strap edges
often a metal "buckle" of sorts on the strap.
*A considerable amount of cloth covering the hat

Slouch Hat

*cord (optional)
*cloth


Compare the two:






To me, the slouch hat seems to use less resources.


What is everyone's opinion on early war top hats being worn by Confederate soldiers? I've seen a few photographs of the soldiers sitting there in their new uniform, holding their knife, pistol etc. and are wearing a top hat. Out here in Missouri, a lot of the State Guard infantry reenactors where the top hats. What are your thoughts on this?

[SCSecesh]

Re: Western Hats

A few more images

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Western Hats

Andrew a generic frock is a good choice because it can be used for several time periods and theaters. I have never heard of the vendor you spoke of, but you may want to go through sombody like Charlie Childs instead. As far as a hat or cap, the choice is really up to your preferance. It is important to note, what you wear on your head can really make or break your impression. Just remember the safe bet is to keep your impression generic and common as possible. Only buy reproductions of known original uniforms and equipment. I also recomend only getting items from the vendors on this board.

"We're more focused on drill and manuvering than look"

This scares the crap out of me. You may want to look for a more authenticity minded unit in your area.

[PrettyBoyDonovan]

Re: Western Hats

I spoke a little bad there. We emphasise on drill, but authenticity in our uniforms is also a priority. It seems I can't explain it in any way. We're the best drilled battalion in the Mid-West (not bragging but we've been told that) and one of the best looking. Our only problem is so many units represent different stages of the war, and when the battalion falls in together we look mis-matched. All the units look great, but an Orphan Brigade unit in line next to a Texas Brigade unit looks pretty dumb. The Frocks should help this immensly.

[Jonah Barleycorn]

Re: Western Hats

We're the best drilled battalion in the Mid-West (not bragging but we've been told that) and one of the best looking.

Howdy Comrade,

I don't mean to burst your bubble or come off as mean-spirited, however what you said above may hold true for mainstreamers, but don't fool yourself you won't find anyone around these c/p/h parts agreeing with your assertion. Along authentic standards, they are from from the mark. Again, my apologies if I appear brash or harsh, but these are the authentic campaigner forums; people here know otherwise.

Sincerely, etc., etc.,

[PrettyBoyDonovan]

Re: Western Hats

No offense taken. The reason I'm on this site is to better my impression so that other may follow.

[Clark Badgett]

Re: Western Hats

Jack, what you pictured was a forage cap, not very much like the style normally seen IDed as being Western CS in issue. That being said, from the QM records I've seen of the 1st Ky (Orphan) Brigade, I don't recall hats as being issued, lots of caps but no hats. And as far as materials go, most caps I've seen were quite basic. Very little leather, brim of pasteboard covered with enameled cloth (occastionally leather), chinstrap of enameled cloth or black tape, crown of pasteboard, any cheap cloth available, and 2 buttons.

Andrew, Medich's Bttn could hardly be described as authentic. I haven't seen them in 4 years but I don't for a minute think they could have gone from the botton of the mainstream to progressive that fast. Nice guys though.

[ewtaylor]

Re: Western Hats

Jack, what you pictured was a forage cap, not very much like the style normally seen IDed as being Western CS in issue. That being said, from the QM records I've seen of the 1st Ky (Orphan) Brigade, I don't recall hats as being issued, lots of caps but no hats. And as far as materials go, most caps I've seen were quite basic. Very little leather, brim of pasteboard covered with enameled cloth (occastionally leather), chinstrap of enameled cloth or black tape, crown of pasteboard, any cheap cloth available, and 2 buttons.

Andrew, Medich's Bttn could hardly be described as authentic. I haven't seen them in 4 years but I don't for a minute think they could have gone from the botton of the mainstream to progressive that fast. Nice guys though.

Clark,
I agree with the above quote. I believe these were the CS troops who came down here to KY for the Richmond fiasco. They were a very good group of fellas and stuck it out all night and morning thru the "typhoon". Their attitudes towards authenticity were very good, however they still would be considered mainstream by most people of this forum.

David,
Thanks for the info on the Bomar Frock.

Young Mr. Donovan,
You should research a little more before you ask your questions. You could also email people on this forum about specific questions. I think it may save you some heartache in the future. I'm Not trying to be mean, just trying to help.

ewtaylor
bluegrass rifles