Subdued rank placement question

[mtvernon]

Gentlemen,

After searching here and elsewhere I'm forced to ask the following question: do any of you have any original images or examples of the typical placement of subdued officer's rank? I have seen collar, shoulder, & chest, but I want to see as many original examples as possible. I've tried several ways to find them both here and elsewhere but am coming up empty handed. I'd appreciate any help as I need to make a decision asap.

[KeystoneGuard]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Joe,
I do not recall where I found the photo, but I had one on file of an officer with a rank circlet on his hat. I'll see if I can find it.

[Will Eichler]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Joe,

Wish I could help with "chapter and verse" but when I was first investigating, I found at least one example of an officer with a commercial sack with a collar folded down like a modern suit coat (as opposed to buttoned to the neck like an enlisted man's fatigue blouse). He had sewn his insignia on his collar. He was a captain. The thing I found interesting was the photo was an image of a court martial commission in the Army of the Potomac around the end of July, 1863. It's the earliest I've been able to document subdued rank worn in the Army of the Potomac.

I look forward to seeing what others have to offer.

Yours,

Will

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Hallo!



Curt

[KeystoneGuard]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Curt,you beat me to that photo, its in my archive also:wink_smil

[LejeuneMarine]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Here is a couple of photos that you have probably seen. A couple placed on collar and one with it on the front of the shoulders.

Mike Pretus

[mtvernon]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

I found at least one example of an officer with a commercial sack with a collar folded down like a modern suit coat (as opposed to buttoned to the neck like an enlisted man's fatigue blouse). He had sewn his insignia on his collar. He was a captain.

Thanks for this. I think it's what I'm looking for exactly. If you have the picture it would be great to see it. Short of that, let me be a little more specific. I have a private purchase sack coat with a slightly wider collar (so as not to be confusing, there is no lapel). If I put it on the collar, does it matter whether I place it vertical, following the axis of the body for instance, or at a 45 degree angle like in modern examples?

I realize that this was a variation from the SOP, so maybe the answer is to feel the freedom to just to go with whatever I intuitively want, as they might have then. But the absence of knowing what was actually done is having the opposite effect. I do not want to guess when it comes to this stuff, but I'm having very little luck finding primary sources (i.e. photos).

I hope that clarifies my aims, and that it leads to oodles of pictures that I cannot seem to find. Thanks to those who have already responded. You've been a big help and I thank you.

Respectfully,

[mtvernon]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Here is a couple of photos that you have probably seen. A couple placed on collar and one with it on the front of the shoulders.

Mike Pretus

Hey, this is just the thing! I've never seen anything like the captain second from the right with the insignia on the front of the shoulder. I'll bet he's the only one you'll find like that. The leftmost captain as well is pretty interesting in the indifference to placement there seems to be. The leftmost captain's left bars look parallel to the ground, as they would be if on the shoulder. The right bars look like they're at more of an oblique angle. Maybe the collar is roughed up or something, but it is interesting to see.

Thanks a lot and Semper Fi back to you.

Respectfully,

[Chihuahua]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Joe,
For your study, here is an image of a young captain with the 5th Iowa Cavalry. I don't know the lad's name, but he's sporting the cut-down rank insignia. Image was struck in Nashville.
Mark Warren
Hairy Nation
Bloomfield, Iowa

[Silas]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

A couple weeks ago, I noticed a photo of an officer with reduced rank, and I wish I recall the source. He was either a major or lieutenant colonel wearing shoulder boards. The odd thing about the boards was that gold boarders had either been cut before installation or the boards were produced without the gold boarder. Each was the usual long rectangle with a leaf at each end of the rectangle.

This is a minimized rank alternative, but which conforms to the traditional shoulder placement.

[LejeuneMarine]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Joe,
I will have to look for it but a month ago I found another pic of a Captain with the bars on the front shoulder. I found it pretty strange as well. From what I remember, it was a picture of a staff together and he was the only oddball while everyone else had boards or no rank (that I could see).

Mike Pretus

[Bushrod Carter]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

To Joe: Please excuse me not having gotten back with you about this...but life has dealt me bigger fish to fry these past few days.

To everyone who has posted on this thread: thanks for helping Joe out! He asked me this same question but I have been unable to find time to respond to his inquiries.

GREAT Pics - BTW! Some really good stuff here.

[mtvernon]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Hey, thanks again everyone. I asked, you answered, and the results were all new to me and very relevant.

Patrick, let me get this straight: the world doesn't revolve around me? No hard feelings whatsoever. I thank you again for creating this problem when you sold me this subdued rank! I hope your fish-fry goes well. I contacted more people than just you about this, so don't feel bad at all. Mostly I just wanted to say honestly that I exhausted all other sources before I did the nearly-unthinkable and posted a question.

These examples are not only great for research but also for a guide. I feel my question has been answered to my immediate satisfaction.

Thanks again and fare thee well!

[mtvernon]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

Well, here's what I came up with. I'm mostly looking for any criticism if it doesn't look right. I based it in part off the attached photo.

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: Subdued rank placement question

California Joe:

"Bealeton, Virginia. Company I, 93d New York Infantry Officers and non-commissioned officers" August 1863. (LC-DIG-cwpb-04013)