Correct NCO chevron shape

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

Sir, not to take away from your first post..., but could this corporal to the left in this image be a marine?

Did the Marine Corps have its own chevron design to distinguish the branch of service apart from the Army?

Well, I guess it wouldn't be the first time a soldier had or did somethings against Regs...Great picture:o


As far as The Marine Corps.... Here is an excerpt describing Marine Corps Chevrons.

The uniform regulations issued in that year are of great historical significance with regard to noncommissioned rank symbols, since they set the pattern which has generally prevailed until the present. In 1859, variations of the "point-up" yellow lace chevron, 1/2 inch wide, extending from seam to seam on the sleeve, were established as the mark of the noncommissioned officer. For the sergeant major, there were three chevrons and three arcs on a scarlet ground; for the quartermaster sergeant, three chevrons and three bars on a scarlet ground; for the drum major, three chevrons and three bars on a scarlet round with a five-pointed star in the center; for the first sergeant, a detached lozenge in the angle of three chevrons; for other sergeants, three chevrons, and for the corporal, two chevrons, all edged in red.

Except for the insertion of new ranks and the intrpduction of field service insignia, the regulations of 1859 remained virtually unchanged until World War I and the adoption of the smaller chevron.

cited from
Enlisted Rank Insignia In The U.S. Marine Corps 1798--1958*,
by Michael O'Quinlivan, Historical Branch, G-3
Headquarters U.S. Marine Corps
Washington, D.C.
June 1959

[Andrew Jarvi]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

I stumbled accross this image while researching the 21st Michigan for Bentonville. Check out Sgt. Sgt.Ransom H. Robinson, Company G. Photo copied from http://www.21stmichigan.us/photos/images/RHR.JPG.

Those are some massive chevrons. I really wish I could tell what color and material they are made out of.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

To offset the gigantic chevrons on the 21st Michigan sergeant's coat, here's a pair from the other end of the spectrum.

[Andrew Jarvi]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

That is borderline hilarious that there were those kind of extremes in NCO chevrons.

[Bill]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

I think we can agree that there are variations to the chevrons themselves based on what history has shown us. Not to detract from this thread but it needs to be said that...As Reenactors we need to pay attention ..to the direction in which we sew the chevrons on our garments as witnessed at recent events (EBUFU even!!!) with people using modern uniform guidelines.....My .02 cents


MODERN = WRONG



FEDERAL ENLISTED RANK CIVIL WAR TIME PERIOD = RIGHT



Jus Sayin!

Pete,

Guility as charged. I was a sergeant at Bummer's. My wife sewed my chevrons on upside down. I never noticed they were wrong until Saturday morning. Funny, nobody else seemed to notice they were wrong either.

[sedlakchristopher]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

We would be laughed out of camp if we wore either the oversize or the 'mini' chevrons!
To echo, in twenty years of researching original photos, I too, have seen straight and curved chevrons, with straight being predominant, BUT the 'curved' being existant also to some lesser degree. I do believe, as in many minutua of living history, we had a overreaction to the enlightenment a few years back that some chevrons were curved and over compensated overly... make sense?

On a seperate note, and NOT to embarass him, but Mr. Mel Hadden posted:
"If I understand your question, you are not talking about the difference in the ties over the chevrons of quartermaster and master sergeants."
As far as I've seen, Master Sergeant is a modern or Post-War rank and was not known during the Civil War.
I mention that because I have seen it in the field and it can be embarassing if you refer to the Sergeant Major (which is what the Sgt.Major chevrons looked like and are mistaken for) as the Master Sergeant.
In days gone by, when I portrayed the battalion's Sergeant Major, quite a few times I was referred to as Master Sergeant, and keeping in perfect first person commenced to the ass reaming that that poor soul will never forget.... calling the Sgt. Major anything but that... hmmmmfffffhhhhhh....

Take care guys!
Chris Sedlak

[yeoman]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

Sir, thanks for the pointer up.

"If I understand your question, you are not talking about the difference in the ties over the chevrons of quartermaster and master sergeants."

Please do not view this as an excuse for the above quote. I do believe I had the intention of writing "Sergeant Major" as I was posting.
Our words and how they are used are the deal here.
I have had a reaming or two along the way and rather than be embarrassed have used them as learning events.

These are some words strung together I found and enjoy. If I may, I would like to share.
"It seems the more I learn, the more a beginner in learning I am."

Chris, again thanks for the pointer up,
respectfully, Mel Hadden

(this image from Indiana State Museum)

[flattop32355]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

Pete,

Guility as charged. I was a sergeant at Bummer's. My wife sewed my chevrons on upside down. I never noticed they were wrong until Saturday morning. Funny, nobody else seemed to notice they were wrong either.

Oh, we noticed, Bill. Some minor joking occurred. Other things, like food and water, were more pressing at the time. ;)

[Marine Mike]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

This was a war composed mostly of state militias and volunteers. Does the variation only appear with these organizations or does it also appear with regular Army?

Mike Stein

[SouthernRifle]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

Has anyone come across documentation of 1st sergeants sporting the square and no stripes on their uniforms? I've seen it done at a few events. While it seems practical and definately economical, it also seems like a reenactorism.

[JKfifer119]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?1610-NCO-chevrons&highlight=lozenge

Rob there are a few images of what you are referring to in this ancient thread

cheers
Joe Korber

[BobSullivanPress]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

Yes, but if they were portraying marines, then the chevrons were on correctly, i.e. points up.

[1stOVIGuard]

Re: Correct NCO chevron shape

Yeoman, The man in question depending on the year and location could be an NCO of the Ambulance Corps. By regulation the chevron (singular) was to be two inches wide and pointed to the shoulder of green material per General Prder 147 Army of the Potomac.