Mystery M1855 lock

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

One other thing - does anyone have a good close-up photo of the inside of a complete functional M1855 lock? I've seen one somewhere on the net, but can't find it now. I spent a good bit of time searching the archives, but came up empty as well.

Steve Blancard

[Blair]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Steve.

I have the photos of a working lock, along with photos of the parts you will need to complete your lock.
Blair

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Blair,

I'd appreciate the photos. Did you get the e-mail I sent yesterday? You should have my email address.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard

[Blair]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Steve,

you will find what you are looking for here,

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/album.php?albumid=71

You will also find the three "type" variation for the Rifle Muskets pictured here,

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/album.php?albumid=99

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Thanks Blair, I appreciate the help.

Steve Blancard

[Blair]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Steve,

The one part I forgot to list that I believe your lock will need is the small screw the hold the advancing hand spring in place.
I would suggest you buy all the parts you need to put your lock together before you go to polishing out the "color" off this color case hardening. It will make all the parts look like they were finished at the same time.

I did not put your e-mail address in my contacts, so I no longer have it. My old computer would do that automatically when I replied to and e-mail. This one does't do that.
I can give you an idea on how you might be able to clean up the bright colors from your hammer and lock plate without having to do any polishing on those parts.
As I told you in my e-mail, all the locks were case hardened. Some of the non "color" case harden locks will still show "shadows" of the hardening even through the otherwise bright finish. Makes for a very nice look on the '55 locks.
Keep in mind all the small parts and screws are blued.

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Good advice Blair. I've made a list of all the needed parts and it appears they all available from S&S, perhaps other sources.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
e-mail: splitdorf@cox.net

[Blair]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Steve,

Lodgewood might be another good place to check. They may have all the proper fitting parts from various makers of the fully functional '55 type locks.
Becky Baird of Lodgewood is extremely knowledable of such things.

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Thanks again Blair.

Steve Blancard

[lwtaggart]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Folks, Refer to Paul Davies, "CS Armory Richmond." The Harpers Ferry model 1855 dated 1861 both on the lock and barrel was produced. Records show that only five are known to have been completed before the Ordnance Board's recommendation to eliminate the Maynard Tape Primor. Springfield has no records of producing the weapon with the 1861 dates. Another unique feature was a change in the shape and design of the patch box located in the stock. This would carry over to some early 1861 Richmond rifle muskets.

George Taggart

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

George,

Could you elaborate on the change in patchbox shape/design?

S&S and Dixie offer reproduction patchboxes, I'm curious what the differences are with the late version and how the repro patchboxes compare.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Hallo!

"Another unique feature was a change in the shape and design of the patch box located in the stock. This would carry over to some early 1861 Richmond rifle muskets.''

Are you thinking of the proposed circular box for the M1861 that was not put into production? (a possible prototype/sample used to be (is still?) in the Fuller Collection at Chickamauga.

These never (universal so noted) made it into Harpers Ferry machinery or use.

Curt

[lwtaggart]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Curt, I do not have the reference in front of me, but according to Paul Davies research there apparently was an eleventh hour decision to delay stopping the production changes of the patch box cover and the Maynard tape system at HAFE. You may be right on never having been put into production. For certain is that many of the parts captured from HAFE were used for the first Richmond rifles. It would be interesting to see if the new style appears on any surviving Richmonds.

Steve, The patch box change was a much more rounded cover design, different from the first type. Not sure which S&S has available.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Hallo!

I think we are talking about:



From Col. H. K. Craig's "Recommendations of the Ordnance Board, Convened at Washington, May 15, 1860

THE PATCHBOX IS IT NECESSARY?

From the best information the Board can obtain from officers uisng the rifled (sic) musket it appears that a patchbox is very convenient and useful for carrying a greased rag or grease. The report of inspectors general indicates that the same difficulty has been found in our service that has been reported in the British service in India with regard to teh drying up of the grease used in the cartridge as a lubricator for the bulet of the rifled (sic) musket, and, as the use of lubricating material is very important for accurate shooting with these arms, the Board is of the opinion that the patch-box should be retained, and they recommend the adoption of the pattern presented from Springfield armory, (marked A, 117,) as the neatest and cheapest plan offered.
Major Hagner desires to record his dissent to the above recommendations. He thinks that the patch or grease-box in the stock should be dispensed with. The arm fabricated for the general service should consist of as few parts and be as little costly as possible to fit it for effective service.
The patch-box in the stock is costly--cannot be of general use in the ranks as a grease- or patch-box--is not particularly convenient in position, or suitable for such a purpose, and renders the arm untidy to handle, if so used.
Should marksmen on special service, in deliberate firing, find it best to have an additional supply of grease at hand it can be carried, with equal conveniencem in a box detached from the gun and of little cost. The patch-box has not been supplied to the rifled (sic) musket in any European service, as far as known to me although the cartridges used by them are not superior to our own."

Superintendant E.S. Allin of Springfield Armory had submitted the design to the Board of Ordnance.

There is no surviving record(s) of who and when the circular box was rescinded.

Allin wrote back to Craig, on April 10, 1860:

"Sir:

I trust you will not deem me impertinent, or as exceeding my duty, in presenting for your consideration the accompanying Patch Box tending to improve our rifle musket, especially as its recommendation is only given in a suggestive form for your approval or otherwise as you deem best.
Since having received directives to supply the Patch Box to our rifle musket, the design or style of which I confess I have not had a very favorable opinion of, and from an intimidation in your letter of the 21st of Feby, last that the Ordnance Board were to take furhter action upon it at its next session, I have taken the liberty to get up one on a plan somewhat similar to an English box but which I think much better, and send it for your examination, as it will satisfy you better than a mere description or drawing.
It is so simple as to require little explanation, but in comparison with the present Patch Box, you will perceive that it presents a smooth surface upon the face of the stock instead of the projecting hinge, it takes but seven pieces (including screws) to the present one eleven--gives more room in the box, operates perfectly, is more compact and easily made, will cost less and for an appendage to the rifle musket as regards appearance, will at least compare favorably with the others. It is held by a single guard screw which is sufficiently strong to hold it. A small screw driver in the box will serve to turn out this screw to show the interior arrangement. The screw in the tang of the butt plate is reduced in length 1/4 inch so as not to project through, but is now longer than need be for this purpose.
I therefore respectfully submit this Patch Box for your consideration, hoping that you will decide it to be superior to the present one, which is imperfect in form, the hinge more difficult to make, the holes for the cam for the spring not central, and more difficult to be made to interchange perfectly.

I am Sir, very respectfully
Your Obed. Servt.,

E.S.Allin, Act. Supt."

Thre are no records known of went on from there, as when the new M1861 was finally approved on February 20, 1861 it did not include Allin's circular patchbox.
However, it and the Board's recommendation were used to make up the new manuals showing the M1861 as having the circular box.

Curt

[Blair]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

The image posted is actually copied from an 1863 Confederate Ordnance Manual. This image was, however, originally copied from and earlier U S Ordnance Manual probably dated from 1859/60 Manual.
While this image was originally intended to show how firearms were to be boxed for shipment and/or storage, the weapons depicted in the image are of the M-1855 type but shown with the circular style patch box.

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/album.php?albumid=111&pictureid=603

While such primary source of information are critical to us today, it is important to note that the circular patch box was "never" (yeah, there is that word again) put into production by the U S Ordnance Dept./Armory as Curt pointed out.
Also the C S authorities "never" (that word again) put the Maynard Priming System into production on Richmond made firearms.
This image could very easily be taken out of its proper context and be cited as documentary proof that these weapons were actually manufactured. And this is simply not the case here.