Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

[rpierson]

Gents,

I have a mostly original '61 Springfield that was built up as an NSSA shooter years before I came to own it. It's got a Dunlap stock & mostly original metal with a relined barrel from (probably) Whitacre machine. It actually has a real, original Springfield lock plate marked "1861" which I've heard is fairly rare. It's a nice gun overall & pretty darn authentic too.

My question is this: How much would it cost to convert this gun into a late model 1855 rifle-musket & would it be wise? To be happy with the conversion I'd need a functioning maynard type lock plate assembly & not some hunk of metal with a fake door & no internals. How much do decent original locks go for?

I've attached a pic to show what I'm working with... (don't suppose anyone has a decent rear sight they'd part with :wink_smil)

Thanks,
Randall Pierson

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

Randall,
Years ago I converted a '61 IN TO A '55. At the time, Lodgtewood had a lock plate with a functional door, and you had to by the primer pieces separately. I want to say at the time the lock alone (a good repro) was $175.00. If I am not mistaken, there were different models of the '55. I don't know which ones were what, but there were the ones with the brass nose cap, and door in the butt stock, which I am sure you already know. Basically, swapping the locks out was pretty easy with a little handy work to cut out the portion of the stock to make room for the maynard system, it is fairly simple. Good luck!

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

With a slight stock modification at the bolster to accomodate the "hump" you can drop a '55 lock
right in the US 1861 stock mortise. The US 1861 is essentially just a modified US 1855 rifle musket.
James River Armory used to sell fully functioning Maynard locks with one of their US 1855 defarbs. Original
1855 locks run $600 + in functional working order. If money is no object, that is obviously the way to go.
In a way, the lock is the least of it.

Retroverting (to coin the Curt Heinrich Schmidt phrase) the 55 from a US 1861 is much more than the
lock, though. The long range ladder sight was placed further up the barrel than the US 1861 rear sight.
It is hard to fix that because you will have a notch in the barrel where the US 1861 rear sight was previously.
Many of the US 1855s with the long range rear sight also had the brass stock tips. However,
the rear sights varied, and the last 1855s with a similar (though different shape from US 1861) rear leaf sight
had a patchbox in the stock. Not impossible but another necessary historical feature that needs to be
added. Unless you do a "transitional" model, of which there are also a few oddball variations.

I think you have a tiger by the tail there, unless you have deep pockets and fair amount of gunsmithing
skill, it is going to look like what it is...a US 1861 somebody tried to make into a US 1855. The 55s were
somewhat scarce, too. It sounds like you have a decent US rifle musket dated 1861 there, a thing quite rare
unto itself. A decent US 1861 (at all) is actually pretty rare in the hobby these days. With Euroarms going
out of business, they will become a thing practically unknown. The Armi Sport 1861 is so poor it really
can't be modified into a decent looking US 1861. The Dixie/Miroku kits are all long gone. I'd say you
have the foundation of a fine US 1861, make what you have as good as it can be.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

You may want to look into a Rich Cross lock. His work is comparable to originals and you can get a lock that looks new for a reasonable amount of money rather than paying three or four times the same amount for a new-looking original. I'm not 100% certain whether he makes a '55 Springfield lock but it is an option worth checking into. I believe Lodgewood sells his locks as well as a few other retailers.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

In my experience, it seems a lot of the NSSA guys like to build up the more rare/expensive muskets. Whatever the reason, Richmonds and '55's seem a lot more common than '61's. I would agree with Craig B's suggestion and keep your musket as a 61. If you want a 55, it shouldn't be too difficult to find a nicely made custom-build.

[rpierson]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

Thanks guys. Yeah, I kinda figured that's what I was getting into. I figured on doing an original lockplate & repro patch box with the leaf sight etc. plus removing/adding appropriate stamps for the "late" version of the '55. It's looking like that'll potentially cost a boat load just to have a gun that is more appropriate for some scenarios & less for others. I guess I'll leave this one be. Besides, it's hard to save up for a Lorenz AND finance a musket makeover of this scale at the same time!

thanks,
Randall Pierson

[lwtaggart]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

Just spoke to Lodgewood the other day about original M1855 lockplates. At the time they had two originals for sale. Both are Harpers Ferry maker in very good condition. The dates I believe were 1860 and 1861. One was complete, the other was near complete. The prices started at $650.00.

George Taggart

[gsusat]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

Well The lock is realy the heart of the matter. Springfield made the changes to the 1855 rifle musket one at a time so, first being the rear sight in 1858. Then in 1859 they changed the nosecap to iron. And the last change was the addition of the patchbox. You could just change the lock and rear sight and that would work for an 1859 dated 1855. Then add the patchbox when funds became avaliable. As far as the marks - not much will change beyond the date on the lock and barrel. E. S. Allen was the stock inspector at Springfield for both models.

Certainly the 1861 was more common - though they did not hit the field until spring or summer 1862. The 1855's were there at the begining and are distinctive.

[David Fox]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

I've done this in decades past when '55 locks and the rest were relatively cheap. One must also alter the cone snail (bolster) of a '61 to accomodate a '55 lock.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

I've done this in decades past when '55 locks and the rest were relatively cheap. One must also alter the cone snail (bolster) of a '61 to accomodate a '55 lock.

David:
Forgot that part! Yes, there is obviously no need for the flash guard behind the cone with that hump there. Good catch.
Still wouldn't fool with it, Wickett is right in that there are probably more decent 1855s in the hobby than really good US 1861s.
We tend to gravitate toward the variations to be distinct when it is possibly more difficult to portray the norm correctly.

While US Armory made 1861s dated "1861" are the rarest, there were about 25,000 that were issued in the last
quarter of 1861. Certainly the Armory made US 1861 was not found in significant numbers until later in 1862, and
probably mid-1863 before the contractor produced US 1861s were delivered in significant numbers.

[Nighthawk]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

Having done this conversion many years ago, my advice would be to enjoy having an accurate model '61, save the money and put it towards the Lorenz you want. I have a '63 dated Richmond and a Lorenz. The Richmond has many original US parts, including a condemned trigger guard assembly, (not unheard of on Richmond produced arms), a Hoyt relined original '61 barrel, and a Rich Cross modified hump lockplate. The Lorenz is all original. However I lust after a hard band (solid bands with band springs) Enfield. Best of luck with your projects.

Regards,

[David Fox]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

I concurr: I'd not fool with a nice M.1861 these days, certainly not a sound original, arguably not with a really good replica. I believe Alfred Jenks & Son ("Bridesburg", "Philadelphia") was first off the mark with significant deliveries of contract 1861s, and that in August 1862, if memory serves. I've got an 1862 Bridesburg I bought with caddying money as a high school kid in excellent condition for 80 Yankee dollars at a gunshop in York, Pennsylvania in 1959. Them were the days one could and did molest "beater" originals with what passed for a clear conscience.

[rpierson]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

Yep, I shoulda been born a little earlier I guess. I've always had contempt for repro guns as they are just nothing like originals. I would never wear a garment with as many flaws as are common on a normal Italian s**t box. My gun "collection" is more than modest, but made of primarily originals/ original parts. I do remember the days when a REALLY nice U.S. conversion musket could be had for less than $1000. I snagged one of 'em at those prices thankfully, though I'm sure David will tell us that he used them for tent stakes back in the 60's & paid a quarter a piece! ;)

Thanks again for all the input. I ain't gonna mess with this one.

-Randall Pierson

[lwtaggart]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

Another point to consider is making the alteration to the stock means no going back to the 61 lockplate. Unless of course you don't mind looking at a gaping hole caused from the stock mod to accept the M1855 lockplate.

Best advice would be to leave it and pick up another project weapon for a 55.

George Taggart

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Building up a US model '55. Seeking advice.

I concurr: I'd not fool with a nice M.1861 these days, certainly not a sound original, arguably not with a really good replica. I believe Alfred Jenks & Son ("Bridesburg", "Philadelphia") was first off the mark with significant deliveries of contract 1861s, and that in August 1862, if memory serves. I've got an 1862 Bridesburg I bought with caddying money as a high school kid in excellent condition for 80 Yankee dollars at a gunshop in York, Pennsylvania in 1959. Them were the days one could and did molest "beater" originals with what passed for a clear conscience.

Yes, Bridesburg (Alfred Jenks) and Colt both began delivery on their US 1861 contracts in August 1862.
Colt, of course, delivered the "Special Model of 1861" rather than the US Model 1861. A couple others, I think
Savage and Sarson & Roberts also had a few deliveries in late 1862. It was about mid-1863 before a sizeable
number of contractor made US 1861s were ready for issuance.

Not to be a smart-ass but how about a US 1855 for a US 1855 project, meaning build one from disassociated parts.