NCO Chevrons

[KentuckyReb]

I was wondering if anyone here could give me a little help here regarding my stripes (congratulate me, y'all ). I assume such things were pretty well standardized in the Federal service, but I was wondering what the general 'rule' of things was in the Confederate armies. My question is, what would be the correct dimensions (tip to tip, correct angle, width) of non-commisioned officer chevrons? What I'm going with so far is that they were more often put on separately, not in 'sets', and that black would be the best color for a Western Confederate impression. I also would appreciate it if anyone could tell me what the most common (if there was such a thing among W. Confederates) material would be, and if there is a source for it today. I appreciate any help.

[msmjr]

Re: NCO chevrons

A fellow Corporal...or a Private with cloth on his sleeves as I get called from time to time.

If you look at CS NCO photos, there isn't really a consistent "regulation" being followed. Even more complicated, what few things WERE written down as regulation depended upon the State. For that matter, you can go all over the spectrum by reading things (for example, Company Aytch) that mention NCOs ripping off their stripes so as not to be targets.

Without getting terribly technical (which I assume is your real desire) I would say that you do have some latitude in your decision on where to wear, how to wear, and what to wear.

I use black worsted wool tape from Wooded Hamlet (http://www.woodedhamlet.com/tapes_br...ted_twill.html) and apply them directly to my coat sleeve individually. The material comes to Wooded Hamlet from England (so it isn't a USA made product, sorry) but from the old A/C forums, this seemed to be a recommended material.

Hope that is helpful.

-Mike Montgomery

[markj]

Re: NCO chevrons

Greetings,

"Regulations for the Army of the Confederate States, 1863.":

[Para.] 1529. [p. 406]: The rank of non commissioned officers will be marked by chevrons on both sleeves of the uniform coat and the overcoat, above the elbow, of silk and worsted binding, half an inch wide; color the same as the edging of the coat; points down, as follows:

1530. For a Sergeant Major--three bars and an arc in silk.
1531. For a Quartermaster Sergeant--three bars and a tie in silk.
1532. For an Ordnance Sergeant--three bars and a star in silk.
1533. For a First (or Orderly) Sergeant--three bars and a lozenge in worsted [wool].
1534. For a Sergeant--three bars in worsted.
1535. For a Corporal--two bars in worsted.

The above was what was said. However, the sky was the limit for what was actually done. For example, one or more surviving RD jackets sport sergeants stripes made out of black velvet.

Regards,

Mark D. Jaeger

[Clark Badgett]

Re: NCO chevrons

Sam Watkins said they removed their stripes at the hint of the first battle. Of cource that may be something he wrote after a good spell of years. That beings said, in all the photos of Cornfed prisoners I've ever seen I've yet to see any that have any chevrons. I've also not seen any requisitions for stuff to use as stripes, but I've not see everything if fact I've not seen much ;) My advice woud be to find some black twill tape, either wool or cotton and only put the stripes on early war stuff.

[KentuckyReb]

Re: NCO chevrons

Thank you much, gents. I had some 1/2" black wool worsted tape that I went over and bummed off Mom (my Mom is the world's biggest craft nut), but I just wanted to make sure before I started sewing. Ah, man. Spring's almost here--can't wait to get underway again. Thanks again all.

[Amtmann]

Re: NCO chevrons

Why not just leave them off?

[Alamo Guard]

Re: NCO chevrons

Houston Depot did issue the block stripes to men in the Trans-Mississippi. Alot depends on the time of the war for stripes as well. As the war progressed wool was very scarce. The color also varied as the war progressed from black to sky blue for infantry for example. Stripes in southern service are like they said over done today.
I do have stripes on some of my uniforms but not all of them. It makes it easier to change back and forth scenerio dependent. If your in camp or preparing for inspection or maybe a living history wear stripes. If your on the march ready to feel the lead fly, lose the stripes.
Im also in the Army of Tennessee and wear black cotton twill. Not alot of extra wool for stripes for mid war. Another option might just be cut cotton flannel to the appropriate length, as there was alot of that to be had. Another option might be the quartermaster only had red arty stripes available and they were issued. Or as a last resort captured federal. However id avoid the last two for two reasons, documented proof and over indulgance by a unit on this option.
If you ever galvanize and need stripes take the extra change out of your couch and get some Chris Daley stripes, well worth the extra expense.

[Calico Boys]

NCO diminished Rank

Chums,

I have done a search on the forum and came up with nothing. What I am looking for is photo's of NCO's wearing diminished or altered rank on their sleeves. I remember about 4 years ago, there was a photo posted on here of a Sgt with really small chevrons on his coat, and another of an orderly sgt with just the diamond on his coat. Anyhow if anyone has copies of these photo's or others like it please post them on here.

I have always been a supporter of the late war impression of officers and NCO's using a different form of rank on their coats. And the more pictures of this would be better, most photo's are studio shots so its hard to grasp the field look of the officer or NCO. Anyhow thanks in advance.

[Swag]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Here is a photo of what I believe you are looking for, I remembered seeing it while looking at some things on the LOC, and took some time to dig it up again. The first sergent all the way on the left has only the dimond, not the stripes. Any how hope this helps a bit. The picture it self is from August of 64' Taken in Petersburg. Here is the link to the page it self http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/.../~ammem_PG90::



Respectfully Yours,
Sean M. Lamb
H.I.A

[1stMaine]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Comrades,

Nice picture. You'll note, however, that the NCO's appear to have trouser stripes, regardless of the type insignia being worn.......

Keep in mind, also, that although photographic evidence exists showing these "reduced" ranks, such as the diamond, vice the entire 1st Sgt's insignia, there may be other reasons for it's use than simply reducing the ability of the enemy to identify NCO's.

Being advanced to a new spot while on campaign is one reason, where the availability of new rank is not always easy. There exists, and some examples were posted on this forum in the past, orders requiring NCO's to make proper chevrons from old trouser or overcoat material if they could not be obtained through normal channels, and this was also in 1864. Trouser stripes could be made from old coats, etc.

Again, I would place this sort of thing into the date/unit specific portrayal. Yeah, it's neat, and something that WAS done, but was also outside the norm. How relative it is to the impression required at a specific event can only be confirmed through research on the units to be portrayed.

Respects,

[Justin Runyon]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Here are two that I have cabbaged on to.

[Calico Boys]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Sean,

Thats the photo I found on the LOC which got me thinking about this again.

Justin,

Those are some of the photo's I was talking about. There's still one out there with an NCO with stripes on that are the size of modern military stripes. I have never seen anything like it before, and wish I had copied it when I had the chance.

thanks,

[ScottCross]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Casey,

Here's an odd ball one for you from the Oshkosh Public Museum: Full standing view of Sergeant John Braun, Company E, 26th Wisconsin Infantry taken in gallery, probably at end of war in Milwaukee, Braun wears an enlistedman's fatigue blouse with unusually small sergeant's chevron on right sleeve only which is upside down, his coat has been altered by adding two pockets to the front below the waist and adding an opening on the outside to the left breast pocket, he also wears light blue trousers with dark blue sergeants stripes on the outer seams. He is also wearing a so-called "Army of Georgia" Pin on his right breast. He enlisted from Fond du Lac as a corporal on August 15, 1862, Fought at Chancellorsville and captured at Gettysburg, promoted to sergeant, participated in Atlanta Campaign, March to the Sea, and Carolina Campaign, mustered out with the regiment on June 13, 1865.

[Calico Boys]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Scott,

Being this is the second immage of this type, do you think this was more common than we think? I know from looking at several clothing vouchers for the 33rd Mass, 107th NY and 86th NY, that the NCO's were recieving X number of yards of tape trim for their NCO stripes ( but not enough for trousers) that maybe some of them made the stripes smaller. Now I do believe this would have been more common on campaigns like Atlanta or Petersburg, just wondering to what extent.

Thanks for the immage though, its definately different.

[Charles Heath]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

I have done a search on the forum and came up with nothing. What I am looking for is photo's of NCO's wearing diminished or altered rank on their sleeves.

Studio gangstas? ;)

If you happen to run across an image of Edward White, Co. F, 11th NJVI, in the back of Marbaker's regimental, check out the solid diamond on his one visible sleeve, and straps on his shoulders. He was promoted to 1st Sgt. on 1 July 1864, and to 2nd Lt. on 23 October 1864, so this image may have been taken with a bit of "transition" in mind. Also, the jacket in the image appears to be a private purchase type, but the combination of rank insignia is interesting to note.