NCO Chevrons

[theknapsack]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Here's a good one. This is the 149th PA, Co. D, at Petersburg. Note that the NCO's are all wearing NCO belts rather than stripes (or a combination of both).

[Burpyturtle]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Cool picture. But I like it for the extended length sack coats on the soldier next to the officer and on the end on the viewer's right. 4 and 5 buttons fronts on those jackets, and is that an exterior breast pocket?

Check the styles and colors of hats. And look at the majority of the stand collars are worn turned down as roll collars.

Cody Hauser

[crabby]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Casey,

Braun wears an enlistedman's fatigue blouse with unusually small sergeant's chevron on right sleeve only .

Scott, etal,

He may very well have stripes on the other sleeve, with the small size and the angle of his arm we may never know.

Crabby

[ThehosGendar]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Ahoy!

I remember posting that message, with the tiny chevrons...

There are several more images of 1st Sergeants with the lozenge only I'll to dig up, as well as the one of the microscopic chevrons. Give me until this afternoon to wrassle 'em out of my overflowing hardrive.

[billwatson]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Speaking philosophically, if we all start wearing lozenge-only, will we be doing it just because it's kyewl? Rather than because it's underrepresented?

Reduced rank insignia for officers seems to have been more widespread, so when many of us started going to that we moved toward a better representation of history. Reduced rank for first sergeants really does seem to have been an exception rather than an underrepresented norm.

[Calico Boys]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Bill,

I feel it may have been more widespread, but only during a certain period, such as the Atlanta Campaign, or the Petersburg Campaign. This period of the war, is also when you started to see more officers not wearing rank, or wearing diminished rank. The Bucktail Photo, and the 1st Photo of the Cav guys, many of the NCO's have no rank at all on their coats, they are just wearing the belts. You see alot of images of NCO's with no stripes on with just a belt, and trouser stripe. The only reason I checked into it, I was talking with some guys in my group about it, but couldnt find the image I was looking for.

[billwatson]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Gotcha.

I much enjoy the Atlanta/Carolinas Campaign events down South where fellows embrace the order that went out directing the troops to show appropriate stripes even if they had to cut up discarded trousers to do it.

[Calico Boys]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

Charles,

I cant remember where I saw it, but I do remember reading about an NCO who was promoted to LT, and was wearing his enlisted frock for his officers coat. Not sure if he had both the stripes and shoulder straps on it though. But this would be the exception rather than the rule. If I recall he was promoted during the campaign, so there was no time to get custom officer gear.

[ScottCross]

Re: NCO diminished Rank

The image of Sergeant Braun has a ghost on the back where an Internal Revenue stamp had once been, which indicates late war. He is also wearing, what I have termed, an Army of Georgia Badge on his blouse (see my article in MC&H Magazine). These badges only show up about the time of the Grand Review and have the Corps insignia of the units in the Army of Georgia on them. Other images in this collection were taken in Milwaukee when the men returned home. Braun was a veteran of the Carolina Campaign, which is possibly when the NCOs were wearing reduced chevrons. Yes, there may be a chevron on his left arm, but it is almost impossible to tell the way he is turned.

Army of Georgia Badge worn by James F. Sawyer. Residence as Gibraltar, Door County, WI when he enlisted there on Mar. 28, 1864. He was assigned as a private in Company K, 21st Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry and was wounded at Savannah, Georgia. He was transferred as unassigned to the 3rd (reorganized.) Regiment, Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry on June 8, 1865 and was mustered out on July 18, 1865.:

[17th Mo Inf]

Chevron Placement

Pards,

I have recently been asked to serve as corporal of my company and I'm just about to began sewing my chevrons on, but I was hopeing someone could point me in the right direction for the correct placement of them; As I have wondered: Is there anywhere that states the correct distance above the elbow and down from the shoulder for the chevrons to be placed?? All I could find as of late was the U.S. regulations saying:

"1549. The rank of non-commissioned officers will be marked by chevrons upon both sleeves of the uniform coat and overcoat, above the elbow, "

So am I to understand that you just sew them on above the elbow?? or is there any more specific distance...was just wondering and hoping for some useful input....

Thanks,

Jacob Thompson

[markj]

Re: Chevron Placement

Hi Jacob,

Here's a suggestion: open up some coffee-table Civil War books and look for images of corporals.

You will quickly find that, when it came to placement of NCO stripes, there was often significant variation from one individual to another.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Chevron Placement

Hallo!

Agreed.
Look at some period images and then decide what "strikes you fancy" and copy that placement.
For me personally, I always put the point of the chevron at the "height" of my elbow bone. Not that "one" location is necessarily more historically correct than another height, (within historical extremes) it is just a look I like from among a number of "period correct options."
(I "like" the "lower" look myself.... but it can depend upon the proportions of one's arm bones and the "length" of the coat sleeves...) ;)

Curt

[17th Mo Inf]

Re: Chevron Placement

Pards,

Thanks for the input,and ideas. I'm almost ashamed since I did look prior to posting at most of my civil war books and references looking at thier placement on period images of NCOs, but this was just something that came to my mind and caused me to wonder if it was by regulation or personal preferance .....Thanks to both of you for adding to this and sheading more light on the chevrons possible placement for me....

Y.O.S.

Jacob Thompson

[Rob]

Re: Chevron Placement

My rule of thumb is to hold my arm straight down at my side, bend the forearm forward 90 degrees (level with the ground) and measure two fingers' width up from the point of the elbow. The chevrons are lined up with the back seam of the sleeve.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Chevron Placement

Photos tell a lot. They, like knowledge, "are good".

(With a nod to the inscription at the bottom of the statue of Faber, at the college that bears his name.)