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  • #1

    Variant Sack

    Here's a wild one from:
    [Fort Brady, Va. Entrance to magazine].

    CREATED/PUBLISHED
    1864.

    SUMMARY
    Photograph from the main eastern theater of war, the Army of the James, June 1864-April 1865.

    NOTES
    Reference: Civil War photographs, 1861-1865 / compiled by Hirst D. Milhollen and Donald H. Mugridge, Washington, D.C. : Library of Congress, 1977. No. 0337

    Title from Milhollen and Mugridge.

    Two plates form left (LC-B811-2705B) and right (LC-B811-2705A) halves of a stereograph pair; with variant view plate (LC-B811-2705C).

    http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/02200/02208v.jpg


    Check out the variant sack coat attached:

    It seems to follow the regulation 'pattern' however it has:

    A chevroned style cuff....OR is it a service stripe???

    5 Button Front

    Non-Regulation Buttons

    Exterior pocket (nicely made).

    I like his eliptical chevrons too! :shades_sm

    And yes, look there's a rain cap cover and a pinky ring, let's not post the obvious on and on and on....... :sick: :sick: :sick:
    Attached Files
    Last edited by paulcalloway; 02-25-2004, 01:45 PM. Reason: Image too big for front page
    Ryan B.Weddle

    7th New York State Militia

    "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes" - Henry David Thoreau

    "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country."
    – George Washington , 1789

    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Variant Sack

    So much for the "there were no pot bellied soldiers" in the American Civil War argument.

    That's sun light in the bomb proof showing that there was a gun port or some opening on the other side of the fort (behind the young lad standing guard up on high).

    Heavy Artillerymen with rifles, garrison troops with hat brass.

    Don't think it has anything to do with these uniforms, but the Wisconsin State Jacket had 5 buttons and a Frock Coat Collar.

    Great looking picture, thanks!

    RJ Samp
    RJ Samp
    (Mr. Robert James Samp, Junior)
    Bugle, Bugle, Bugle

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Variant Sack

      Is it an officer's Sack?
      B. G. Beall (Long Gone)

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Variant Sack

        Originally posted by Vuhginyuh
        Is it an officer's Sack?
        No. The sgt chevrons kill that...

        It is either a private purchase item, or something that was field modified....


        Also, there is something else cool here, the gunner's haversack in the corner sitting on barrel with the flap open and full of little cardboard boxes.... primers maybe or who knows ?
        Attached Files
        Last edited by RyanBWeddle; 02-25-2004, 10:07 AM.
        Ryan B.Weddle

        7th New York State Militia

        "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes" - Henry David Thoreau

        "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country."
        – George Washington , 1789

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Variant Sack

          Ryan

          In looking at a blown up version of your attachment, it appears that the stripe on the cuff is more like a trim. It can be seen also on the other sleeve.
          Greg Bullock
          [URL="http://www.pridgeonslegion.com/group/9thvacoe"]Bell's Rifles Mess[/URL]
          Member, [URL="http://www.civilwar.org/"]Civil War Preservation Trust[/URL]
          [URL="http://www.shenandoahatwar.org/index.php"]Shenandoah Valley Battlefield Foundation[/URL]

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Variant Sack

            Originally posted by lhsnj
            Ryan

            In looking at a blown up version of your attachment, it appears that the stripe on the cuff is more like a trim. It can be seen also on the other sleeve.

            Right, it is most likely a service stripe which aren't often seen 'in the field'.

            Another reason this points to a private purchase item.
            Ryan B.Weddle

            7th New York State Militia

            "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes" - Henry David Thoreau

            "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country."
            – George Washington , 1789

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Variant Sack

              In my opinion it's a private purchase item.


              :)
              Aka
              Wm Green :D
              Illegitimi non carborundum
              (Don’t let the bastards grind you down!)

              Dreaming of the following and other events

              Picket Post
              Perryville

              The like to do a winter camp.....hint hint...

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Variant Sack

                Originally posted by Huck
                In my opinion it's a private purchase item.


                :)

                Oh great! Thanks Huck, that makes all the freakin difference. You are a genius.... :D
                Ryan B.Weddle

                7th New York State Militia

                "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes" - Henry David Thoreau

                "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country."
                – George Washington , 1789

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Variant Sack

                  Check out the crazy shirt that guy has on. I think the "pot bellied" guy is pregnant. :sarcastic
                  Robert Johnson

                  "Them fellers out thar you ar goin up against, ain't none of the blue-bellied, white-livered Yanks and sassidge-eatin'forrin' hirelin's you have in Virginny that run atthe snap of a cap - they're Western fellers, an' they'll mighty quick give you a bellyful o' fightin."



                  In memory of: William Garry Co.H 5th USCC KIA 10/2/64 Saltville VA.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Variant Sack

                    I'm not so sure about the service stripe idea. Why? Because I have a nice group of photos here of a bunch of Kentucky cavalrymen, and quite a few of them have the horizontal stripe on both cuffs. Most are wearing jackets, but one in particular is wearing a sack coat with that feature on both sleeves, and these photos are circa 1862. In fact there is at least one photo posted in the image gallery of a soldier wearing a jacket with the same style diagonal stripe.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Variant Sack

                      Is the guy with the pinky ring wearing a shirt that buttons the whole way down the front?

                      Sgt. Daniel Curran
                      37th NC CO A

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Variant Sack

                        Clark,

                        This guy's sack points to being something that was either field modified, or tailor made for him....

                        The 5 button front, non-issue buttons, exterior pocket, & etc. The service stripe adds to that... I have seen photos of many men on furlough that bought new jackets, etc. and had service stripes sewn on . . . I will post some tonight when I get home.

                        I even sent this to Charlie Childs, Fred Gaede, etc. and they agree it is a service stripe. It even LOOKS like a service stripe. And it doesn't 'point' like a chevron would, at first glance you'd think it was a chevron cuff, however then you see closer to the wrist where there is a stitch line, which is wear the sleeve lining is attached on the interior.... "Survey says .... Service Stripe".


                        Daniel,

                        No, I think it's just a long placket.... It kinda gets lost as you get around his belly, but the buttons don't appear to run all the way down...
                        Ryan B.Weddle

                        7th New York State Militia

                        "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes" - Henry David Thoreau

                        "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country."
                        – George Washington , 1789

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Variant Sack

                          Ryan, I know all too well what a service stripe is, and the other photos that I am talking about are not service stripes, nor chevroned cuffs, they are some form of decoration that was on both cuffs of the jackets and 1 sack coat, on IDed photos of members of Co I 3rd Ky Cav.

                          How on earth do I get these darned images to post :baring_te

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Variant Sack

                            Originally posted by RyanBWeddle
                            No. The sgt chevrons kill that...

                            It is either a private purchase item, or something that was field modified....


                            Also, there is something else cool here, the gunner's haversack in the corner sitting on barrel with the flap open and full of little cardboard boxes.... primers maybe or who knows ?

                            I have seen private purchase officer's fatigue blouses with scalloped cuffs, pointed trimmmed cuffs, velvet trimmed bar cuffs and functional button cuffs... sleeves with service stripes for regular army service and plain like a private's. Four buttons, five buttons, Rolled collars, flat collars, even double breasted plackets. One, two, three and even four pocket trimmed with satin.The officers tastes and funds were the only limits to the variations.

                            In one post I'm told directly and emphatically it is Sgts' Chevron. In another it is stated without question that it is a Service stripe. I do not recall seeing a Sgt. with service stripes on his wrist but no chevrons on his arm. The nature of the Sgt. is to show his stripes.

                            So... if he is not an officer, and wears no stripes (that I can see) of an NCO then the argument must be for regular army private, with a non-reg private-purchase blouse.

                            I guess an extant example will solve this. But it is a good set of posts all the same.
                            Last edited by Vuhginyuh; 02-27-2004, 06:22 PM.
                            B. G. Beall (Long Gone)

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Variant Sack

                              The "service stripe" in question appears to be a Veteran rennlistment hash. These were worn in the field. Other that this, the coat is a plain old 5 button sack with a exterior pocket
                              [SIZE=2][B]Mark Mason[/B][/SIZE] :cool:
                              [SIZE=2][I]Tar Water Mess[/I][/SIZE]
                              [SIZE=2][I]GHTI[/I][/SIZE]
                              [URL]http://http://www.ghti.homestead.com/[/URL]

                              Comment

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