Question about bayonets.

[maillemaker]

I have utilized the search function and read through perhaps 10 threads on bayonets but I still have some questions:

What angle to the axis of the barrel of the rifle should the blade of the bayonet make? I would think that it would be parallel to the blade.

When I look at this picture here:

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/skutatos/Britaccout2.jpg

And use Microsoft Paint to draw a line through the ramrod, it looks like the blade is mostly parallel to the barrel, perhaps slightly turned out.

The repro I just purchased the blade is easily 15 degrees out of alignment with the axis of the barrel. The blade was bowed also but I was able to bend it back. I am considering attempting to bend the entire blade into alignment by careful persuasion in my vice.

Also, I'm wondering how tightly the bayonet should fit to the barrel? Mine does not fit that tightly, even adjusting the tensioning screw I cannot make it tight. I was going to shim the inside of the bayonet with some copper tape?

Did a soldier tighten the screw during the process of mounting the bayonet, or was it pre-set so that the soldier could just put it on the end of his musket and turn it to lock it? What kept it from un-twisting and falling off during use?

Oh, also, this bayonet is unblued. Can I dip the muzzle end in bluing to properly blue it?

Thanks,

Steve

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Question about bayonets.

Well originally the blade would run parrallel to the barrel when attached. Blades even back then could bend slightly. Cheap repros made of mild steel and not carbon steel bend easily. So you might have to adjust it. I assume original bayonets fitted pretty well to the muskets they were intended to be used with. Repros do not as the diameter of repro barrels differ from originals and vary from maker to maker. Although for examplean original bayonet will fit the repro Armi Sport M1842 pretty well.

[maillemaker]

Re: Question about bayonets.

Thanks Jan,

I have a Euroarms P53 I am working with.

When they were attached to muskets for actual use, it appears that they slide over the front site, then turn some angle, then slide down the musket barrel a bit farther. How snug should the fit be at this point? I'm assuming you should not be able to point your musket at the floor and twist the musket quickly enough to make the bayonet wiggle off?

Steve

[JimKindred]

Re: Question about bayonets.

Thanks Jan,

I have a Euroarms P53 I am working with.

When they were attached to muskets for actual use, it appears that they slide over the front site, then turn some angle, then slide down the musket barrel a bit farther. How snug should the fit be at this point? I'm assuming you should not be able to point your musket at the floor and twist the musket quickly enough to make the bayonet wiggle off?

Steve

Does your bayonet have the locking ring on it?

[maillemaker]

Re: Question about bayonets.

Does your bayonet have the locking ring on it?

Yes, but no matter how much I tighten it the bayonet is still easily removed from the musket.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Question about bayonets.

Thanks Jan,

I have a Euroarms P53 I am working with.

When they were attached to muskets for actual use, it appears that they slide over the front site, then turn some angle, then slide down the musket barrel a bit farther.
Steve

until the sight passes under the ears where the screw is holding the locking ring together. At that point you rotate the locking ring moving the ears away from the sight and bayonet slot. It should only rotate one way. The ears rotate around and the ring ends up behind the front sight locking the bayonet in place. This will prevent the bayonet from sliding off. If any part doesn't fit, the procedure will not work.

It is not unusual for reproduction bayonets not to fit reproduction guns.

[guad42]

Re: Question about bayonets.

To add one thing from your first post on this thread, you do not need to blue your bayonet.

-Sam Dolan

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Question about bayonets.

Hallo!

"Technically..."

Ideally, historically, if the the "Enfield " was in its factory "colors," and not post-struck bright, then the "matching" bayonet's socket and arm would have been been rust-blued.

As shared, not only due reproduction "Enfields" vary in barrel diameter, the cheap Indian repro bayonets can vary radically in their poor to low quality- which includes widely varying socket inner and outer diameter measurements as well as thin and flimsily made locking rings that sometimes are decorational and not functional. (Some lads replace them with original rings).

In brief abnd to over generalize...

The original BSAT P1853 3rd Model "Enfields" had barrels that varied as well, so that originakl Enfield bayonets do not always fit the oversized repro guns- but original bayonets do not always interchange on the original BSAT arms either.

Curt

[dixieflyer]

Re: Question about bayonets.

In brief abnd to over generalize...

The original BSAT P1853 3rd Model "Enfields" had barrels that varied as well, so that originakl Enfield bayonets do not always fit the oversized repro guns- but original bayonets do not always interchange on the original BSAT arms either.

Curt

And this is why on the P-H that I carried for years, the original bayonet that I carried with it was shimmed with some kind of card stock. (My pard that I bought it from had done this.) You may consider shimming the inside of the socket since it sounds like the diameter may be too large. You might want to use very thin brass shim stock, or you may find another poison more to your liking. ;)

Your Madness May Vary, Hope This Helps,

Warren Dickinson

[maillemaker]

Re: Question about bayonets.

I have left my Euroarms blued, and have no intent of "striking it bright", so I will try and blue the muzzle end of my bayonet also.

It is slightly oversized, but I have access to adhesive-backed copper foil, which I could use to line the inside of the bayonet lug. The blueing ought to turn it black. We may have some adhesive-backed aluminum foil, also, which would not stand out at all on the inside.

Steve

[maillemaker]

Re: Question about bayonets.

At that point you rotate the locking ring moving the ears away from the sight and bayonet slot. It should only rotate one way. The ears rotate around and the ring ends up behind the front sight locking the bayonet in place. This will prevent the bayonet from sliding off.

Well, I just had a huge "duh" moment. :)

I now see that the locking ring only needs to be tightened enough so that it rotates firmly. The locking ring is what locks the bayonet in place when rotated into the locked position!

Steve

[maillemaker]

Re: Question about bayonets.

Oh, and I was able to straighten out the bayonet easily. I chucked up a wooden dowel of about the same size as my barrel in my vice, slipped the bayonet over it, and gently bend the blade at the connection until it was true along the axis. I was able to do this by hand so obviously these repros are not made of carbon steel and/or have had no heat treatment at all.

Another question: Would bayonets have been sharp along their edges? Besides the point, of course.

[JimKindred]

Re: Question about bayonets.

Another question: Would bayonets have been sharp along their edges? Besides the point, of course.

No, they would not be.

[ACo.]

Re: Question about bayonets.

As far as "slightly" (not grossly) over-sized bayonets as are often found, keep in mind that the Richmond Armory made their bayonets .001 inch larger than the muzzles of their rifle muskets as well as the US rifle muskets required so that they would fit the slightly larger Enfields commonly found in Confederate service so a slightly loose bayonet is not necessarily a "farb" thing. See THE book, "C. S. Armoury - Richmond" by Paul J. Davies.

A bayonet with the locking ring simply turned will not fall off of the barrel. The soldiers did not tighten the screw on the ring.

[maillemaker]

Re: Question about bayonets.

A bayonet with the locking ring simply turned will not fall off of the barrel.

Unless the locking ring is loose enough to rotate back into the unlocked position? So I tightened my screw so that the locking ring requires positive effort to rotate.