1855 Springfield

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: 1855 Springfield

Jim

Do you have a side shot of that?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 1855 Springfield

Hallo Herr Jim!

"The lug was on the front band. Is that why they call it a bar on band?"

Yes. (Off hand, I recall one such in the Gettysburger NPS case... )

And no. Sorry, I cannot ID the band as of yet- but a "side view" might would help. (And I assume the band is ferrous and not brass?)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Minieball577]

Re: 1855 Springfield

Hallo Herr Jim!

"The lug was on the front band. Is that why they call it a bar on band?"

Yes. (Off hand, I recall one such in the Gettysburger NPS case... )

And no. Sorry, I cannot ID the band as of yet- but a "side view" might would help. (And I assume the band is ferrous and not brass?)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

The band itself looks like it is made of brass, tarnished but not rusted, while the swivel is rusted and probably iron. It looks of the style used on U.S. 1855 Rifles, or one of the Confederate copies such as the Fayettevilles, or one of the Confederate derivitives such as the Georgia Armory Rifle. ****Editorial note, after seeing the other views, the band looks nothing like an 1855 rifle band, and is of the clamping type.****

A side view would surely help.

By the way, I got the chance to examine one of those Belgian built, "Brazilian Light Minie" rifles shown in the Petersburg photo on this thread yesterday. Whata nice peice. I will try to post some photos when I can.

[Jimmayo]

Re: 1855 Springfield

Here is the side view. Band is brass, rest is rust. Band is 3/8 thick and 1.5 inches ID from the split in the band to the top. I have tried it on a Cook and it didn't fit. You can see the shoulder on the inside where the band transitions from enclosing the barrel to the forearm. Any info would be appreciated.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 1855 Springfield

Hallo Kameraden!

I will hold out for a side/profile view. But I will speculate...

"It looks of the style used on U.S. 1855 Rifles, or one of the Confederate copies such as the Fayettevilles, or one of the Confederate derivitives such as the Georgia Armory Rifle. A side view would surely help.


This band appears to be rounded, rather than the wide "flat" used on the M1855 and Fayetteville rifles.

I would look to the C.S. copies of the M1841. The uper brass bands used on the C.S. M1841 "copies" tend to be rounded and either thin or medium in width (apparently taken after the "Third Model P1853 "Enfield" style).

It might would appear from the "end view" that this band is not the "narrower" width type, as found on some Asheville rifles, and on some Cooke & Brother rifles and carbines- but rather similar to those found on some Asheville rifles (which had medium AND narrow bands), some Cooke & Brother rifles and carbines (which had medium AND narrow bands), some Davis & Bozeman rifles and carbines(which had medium AND narrow bands), some H. C. Lamb & Co. rifles (which had medium AND narrow bands), and Tallahasee Cavalry carbines.

Without any other historical and/or "archeological" associations or contexts, I do not know, and doubt, how just the band might could be linked to anyone of these C.S. arms as the "basic design" appears to be similar to a number of these (and those being essentially brass copies of the Enfield upper band).

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Jimmayo]

Re: 1855 Springfield

Thanks Curt
The band came from an 1864 to end of war PB site that started out CS cav prior to 64, CS inf. and then US Inf. It was found near one of the lead filled horse head hat ornaments thought to be CS cav. It was also near several US plates and US bullets. So much for the archeological associations. It's impossible to tell who left it.

Appreciate the effort.

[Frenchie Larry]

Re: 1855 Springfield

Dear Comrades,

To go back on the 1855 in confederate hands, my two cents ;

I've started to read the " Portaits of conflict, a photographic history of Louisiana in the civil war " and I've found 2 interesting documents ;

The first is an extract from a letter of Braxton Bragg, to Thomas Moore ( C. Moneyhon and B. Roberts, Portays of conflict, a photographic history of Louisiana in the civil war, the University of Arkansas Press, 1990, Page number 36 )

Wrote at Pensacola, summer 1861 ;

" we have army muskets, but no cartridge boxes, bullets or cap punches, and we are very deficient in ammunition, about thirty rounds to each now, less than one hour's supply. Your troops armed with the rifled musket, .58 calibre, no ammunition, we have none ... "

As we are in 1861, I think these rifled muskets are 1855 ; this can't be .58 M41 as the M41 is a "rifle " and not a " rifled musket " or " rifle-musket".

In the same book, on page 61 , we can see a copy print of Thomas Taylor, 8th LA Inf, injuried and captured at Antietam. I haven't found the exact period when the picture was taken, but certainly in the early 1862... and this men has a rifle-musket wich really appears to be a 1855 ; the lock plate is very bright and the quality of the print poor, so this isn't sure, but the "door" of the priming system seems to appear, and we can see clearly the shadow of the " hinge " of the "door " ( I hope this is the good word :p ).

Of course this is only valuable for Louisiana troops, and inaccurate evidences...


Best Regards,

Christophe Larribere

EDIT ; It seems that this photo was also published in the well-known Echoes of Glory ( book that I was unable to order as it seems to be out of print now. )

EDIT 2 ; I just saw that posting capyrighted images, even with the name of the book and publisher, was forbidden, so I won't post any scan here !

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: 1855 Springfield

"and this man has a rifle-musket wich really appears to be a 1855 ; the lock plate is very bright and the quality of the print poor, so this isn't sure, but the "door" of the priming system seems to appear, and we can see clearly the shadow of the " hinge " of the "door "

Christophe Larribere:

You got me to look closer at the Thomas Taylor photo, The Lower Band shape, and shape of the buttstock tells me that rifle is a (Remington?) converted 1816 Musket. That Musket has been rifled, because you can see a long-range rear sight on it, and does have a Maynard Priming system.
I find it an interesting photo, he has a British Enfield Cartridge box, and like many other Confederate soldiers, a general mix of equipment.
Respectfully:

Kevin Dally

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 1855 Springfield

Hallo Kameraden!

Yes, if you find a crisper/clearer version of Taylor's image- indeed, he is holding a "rifled and sighted," "Remington" conversion of the M1822.
(Not a rifle-musket.)

The larger lockplate and hammer, and the Maynard primer door with the stud is clearly visible, as is the long range rear sight.
Another clue is the lower band, which the "pointed" forward extension found on the M1822 types.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Frenchie Larry]

Re: 1855 Springfield

Great thanks ! I was sure of the Maynard system so i " jumped " on the 1855, but this converted model is such an interesting piece...I guess no one makes any replicas of it... and what do you think about the letter ? Could it be another model than the ' 55 so early in the war ?