Weighting my cartridge box?

[Reb13thva]

Gentlemen,
Over the years in the hobby I have come across several individuals who have added lead weights to the bottom of their cartridge box tins in an effort to simulate the approximate weight of a cartridge box that is full of ammo. My question is have any of you out their done this? I am wanting to give this a try myself in order to get a better appreciation of the weight of the box. I am looking for an explanation of how you may have made the weights, molded them, and heated the lead ECT. I have no knowledge of how to heat lead what to heat it in or suppliers they would sell lead by the pound. Any guidance thought or suggestions in this matter would be helpful.
Your Most Obedient Servant

[GenuineInformation]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

I too am intrigued by this idea, and am planning to pursue it if somebody explains how he did it exactly. I was thinking that for lead that isn't going to be used for a bullet, old tire weights might work. My local tire shop will give them to me for free.

For those who have added lead, can it be done in such a way that space for carrying rounds is not diminished?
*****************************************
I searched and found this thread that was helpful, but it didn't give a clear-cut how-to.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?28282-Cartridge-Box-Question/page2

Thanks.

[Paul L Muller]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

I have talked to men in my group about is and we are going to make up 40 rounds of 58 cal and use ground charcaol instead of powder. in your case, I think sheet lead is the answer as it will lay flat on the bottom of your box and will not take up a lot of space. plm

[dixieflyer]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

I have don it, and you don't need to do anything as drastic as melting lead, etc. Just get your lead Minie's, and some heavy duty two-part epoxy. Epoxy them together so that they fit in the bottom of the respective sections in your tins. If you epoxy them, you won't have to worry about them coming apart.

Just my two kopecks,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

Hallo!

You will need a supply of lead, and steel crucible, or smallold pot to smelt it in. Tire weights are a good source as purity does not matter, as they are failry easy to find. So is plumbers' lead.

You heat the lead until it is well passed melted, then carefully pour some into the bottom of the tins to fill up that space. Since many/most lads do not compensate for the missing Minie in their (blank round) arsenal bundles, the space taken up at the bottom of the two tins is not a factor.

Be careful, as molten is.... hot and burns. And, tins convect heat too.

And yes, you can use sheet lead and cut it to shape, and "pound" it into the tin bottoms. Metal salvage and scrap metal dealers sometimes have lead sheet from doctors' and dentists' offices that were torn down and the lead sheet from their x-ray rooms were sold as scrap.

Curt

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

Split 25 pounds of lead shot, for reloading from you local sporting goods store, with 5 of your friends. Put your 5 pounds in little cloth bags, under your tins and/or in the bottom stowage area of your tins. It's "form" fitting and easily put in and out as needed. Another option is use real lead mini-bullets and railroad ballast from a hobby store for powder and roll and package "sham" rounds. The first unit I belonged to, kept a box like this around for use at living histories.

[cprljohnivey]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

I am going to add my $.02 to the mix. In my opinion it is not authentic to have minie balls epoxied to your cartridge box tins. Neither is it authentic to fill the tins with molten lead. Filling your box with lead weights will take away space that you need for correctly sized cartridges. Also as has been discussed in the past, once you start shooting, the weight drops with each shot fired. The truly only authentic way is to carry live ammo.

However, if you still want to experience the weight of a fully loaded cartridge box without carrying live ammo, try this easy 5 step process:
1. wrap 20 minie balls in some paper+twine to make them look like a package of 10. Put a label of your choice on it if you wish.
2. Repeat step 1
3. Place the "heavy" packs of ten in the lower compartment of your tins
4. Complete a 12 mile march complete with full haversack, canteen and your usual cargo in your knapsack/blanket roll.
5. Acquire a new level of understanding and respect for those who have traveled before us!

Advantages: no permanent alterations are required of your tins. It does not look like you have weights in your tins as the balls are in a "package of 10 cartridges". It is very easily removed if you choose not to carry the extra weight. Easy to make and requires no epoxy, melting of metal, modling, etc.. Does not take away space from your upper tin compartments so you can still carry authentically sized cartridges.

Disadvantages: Takes up space in your lower tin compartments so you can only carry 20 rounds total (in your upper compartments). Your box will be bottom heavy, meaning the weight is all in the lower compartment of the tins and not dispersed between the top and bottom portion of the tin. You will probably not notice this when you wear it but if you employed some sort of super accurate scientific measurement devices, it would more than like be detected the center of gravity of your box compared with a box loaded with live ammo.

enjoy!

[Secesh]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

I have to agree....lead weights do not seem all that authentic....

[ACo.]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

This has been very interesting. Do keep in mind that if you decide to add molten lead to your tins, that the tins are soldered and will come apart. Sheet lead or the packets made with bullets only will give the weight everyone seems to be looking for. Pure lead can be found at reasonable prices at any scrapyard.

[maillemaker]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

I'll toss in from my bullet casting experiences that if you pour molten lead into a container plated with tin (like tin-plated muffin tins that some folks have tried to use for ingot molds) the molten lead will alloy with the tin and stick - it will not come out again without melting it out.

I like the idea of just carrying more actual bullets, or, failing that, dropping in some lead sheets.

Steve

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

Hallo!

There are two "tangents" at work here:

1. Making a "static" display set-up for talks and presentations that can use "dummy' cartridges made with a Minie ball and model railroad ballast or crushed charcoal briquettes, etc., and arsenal bundles. (I have never fully understood this one- as to why not blackpowder? Meaning, is a lad really NOT going to know the difference between a "live" cartridge" with a nominal 505 bullet in it versus a blank with nothing or a cotton ball and load and shoot it at someone? ;) :) )

2. "Rigging" one's cartridge box so that there is the "real life" feel of a Period cartridge box that weighs roughly 4 1/2 pounds instead of the "light weight" boxes we carry due to their being filled with blanks that do not have the nominal extra three (2.9) pounds of lead bullets in a fullbox of 40 rounds.

True, while "lead weights" in a cartridge box is not something a Civil War soldier would have had, he would not have have experienced the light weight of a full 40 round box missing its three pounds of lead bullet weight.
(Of course, that leads to the issue of a cartridge boxes weighing its 40 round weight all of the time when rigged with lead, versus a "real life" feel of say 30, 20, 10 or an empty box.... as a trade off.)

Curt

[Jimmayo]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

However, if you still want to experience the weight of a fully loaded cartridge box without carrying live ammo, try this easy 5 step process:
1. wrap 20 minie balls in some paper+twine to make them look like a package of 10. Put a label of your choice on it if you wish.
2. Repeat step 1
3. Place the "heavy" packs of ten in the lower compartment of your tins
4. Complete a 12 mile march complete with full haversack, canteen and your usual cargo in your knapsack/blanket roll.
5. Acquire a new level of understanding and respect for those who have traveled before us!

You can bet on that. I rolled 40 live rounds and walked some distance and then commenced to shoot them. I used a .575 old style minie bullet which is the closest one to an original I could find. That box sure seemed heavy and I would have hated to march any distance with it.

[Coatsy]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

"5. Acquire a new level of understanding and respect for those who have traveled before us!"

Agreed 100%. I 'borrowed' my pard's tins that were weighed down by melted lead in the tins at the 2003 Port Gibson March. I just squeezed my blank rounds into the lower compartment and marched off.

The offset though, and I did think about it was everytime that I would fire a round. The weight in the cartridge box would not lessen since the lead was still there. But I chalk it up to the men getting resupplied so a "temporary relief" in a patrol or campaign situation would not really have stuck. All in all it was definitely one of "those" experiences.

[talkToTheHat]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

I'm very concerned at idea of having bags of lead shot in a cartridge box at the same time as blank rounds. Anything small enough to go down the barrel is a bad idea. A single solid weight minimises both possibility of causing injury and any awkward questions if someone else is injured by airborne lead.

[Coatsy]

Re: Weighting my cartridge box?

Here is a simple solution: don't put bags of lead shot into your cartridge box. I agree with Charles that having projectiles in your tins at an event could be a disaster in the making.
Hopefully no one does this at events, but that is why the NCOs inspect your cartridge boxes.

But back to the actual subject at hand. Melting the lead down to fit into your tins (of course measured to the area of the tins, not into the tin itself) seems to be the most tried method. It is one of those “personal” choices that a reenactor can make for themselves. The good news is that tins are not horribly expensive so having a few sets of tins to tinker with could be a good idea.

Cheers.