Where to Wear Your Haversack & Canteen?

[markj]

Re: Cup on the haversack

Hi,

Not to beat a dead horse but, while perusing a coffee-table book on the War last night, I noted some examples of contemporary photos and artwork also showing the practice of hanging cups on or around haversacks. One sketch in particular, dated June 1862, is by noted CW artist Alfred Waud and shows troops on the march. Some of them are clearly shown with cups hanging off their haversacks.

I have also attached the enlargement of the famous Gettysburg image for your edification and perusal. Due to my not having Photo Shop on the computer I'm using, I had to take the long way around the barn and paste the image onto a Word document. Anyway, enjoy.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Cup on the haversack

I have also attached the enlargement of the famous Gettysburg image for your edification and perusal. Due to my not having Photo Shop on the computer I'm using, I had to take the long way around the barn and paste the image onto a Word document. Anyway, enjoy.

Don't forget the man on the far right in the same image - - -

Check out the attachment, he has his cup hanging from his haversack strap, and his haversack is of Federal pattern BTW!

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Cup on the haversack

I find it more convenient to hang my cup from my haversack strap. (As in the great pictures Ryan and Mark provided).

However, if I'm doing an impression where I'm not wearing a haversack with a strap, then I usually hang the cup from my knapsack straps or off my bedroll (At the bottom where you tie it together). No anacanda's here!! :wink_smil

I don't like putting it in my haversack because I usually don't have any room for it.

Just my personal preference.

[hardeesboy]

Re: Cup on the haversack

What do you suppose the item is directly above his haversack is? At first glance I thought it was a canteen, but it appears to be a poke bag of some sort. Any other thoughts?

[vbetts]

Texas haversacks

I thought this might be interesting to some:

[HOUSTON] TRI-WEEKLY TELEGRAPH, December 15, 1863, p. 2, c. 4
Headquarters District, Texas, New}
Mexico and Arizona, Hawkins’ Farm,}
On Caney River, Dec. 10, 1863.}
To the Ladies of Texas:
The Commanding General announces to you that (20,000) twenty thousand haversacks are required in the army. These are sachels about 14 inches wide and 12 deep, with a flap from the top buttoned on the outside of the sachel, and slung by a belt over the shoulder, passing under the arm.
They are absolutely necessary to the efficiency of the soldier in the field, and cannot be made by the Quartermaster Department, for want of material. The best material is strong, unbleached cotton, but as it is also scarce in private families, they may be made of carpeting, curtain calico of double thickness, table covers, cotton or woolen, or any strong material whatever; and the belt passing over the shoulder and under the arm can be made of the same material, doubled and hemmed, or of buckskin or leather.
The noble example which you have set of undying patriotism and the most unselfish devotion, inspires the Commanding General with a hope that he does not call upon you in vain, when he asks you, as he does now, to furnish with the least possible delay, each, as many haversacks or sachels of this description as you can make, or induce your friends to make. They should be sewed in the strongest manner, and made of the strongest material which can be procured. Should any of the ladies desire them to go to particular regiments in which they have friends, by fixing the name of the regiment to the articles, they will be assorted by the Q. M., and forwarded according to address.
Every lady in Texas is requested to forward as many as she can make to the Quartermaster nearest her residence, and all Quartermasters East of the Colorado are directed to send them, as soon as a sufficient number has been received, to Capt. Wharton, at Houston, and those West of the Colorado, to Capt. Prescott, Q. M. at San Antonio.
Quartermasters of regiments, battalions and detached companies, are hereby directed to make requisitions at once. Those East of the Colorado on Capt. Wharton, and those West on Captain Prescott, for haversacks, in accordance with the number of men present with their corps.
J. Bankhead Magruder,
Major General Commanding
Dist. Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.


Vicki Betts
vbetts@gower.net

[Johan Steele]

White Haversacks & Coffee staining

I was reading a letter I had copied in the Hysterical Society that caught my fancy, I'm wondering how common the practice was.

"... the new men came to the company with white haversacks and light canteen covers and traps. A dip in the coffee kettle solved that. We veterans had them throw away everything they didn't need for the coming march and soon had them set to face the secesh. A few of these men have already fought the Indians... (unintelligable) not have to watch them much when they make the aquaintance of the elephant."

The man was a Sgt w/ the 4th MN VI writing home just prior to the start of the Atlanta Campaign.

I've never heard of White haversacks in Union service before; would this have been a Western only issue? I can see using Coffee to stain white canvas or white cloth a darker color, it makes sense and I've read of the Brits using Tea to stain their white gear in India... I'm just wondering how widespread White gear was in Union issue... apparently there was at least some in Minnesota troops hands as late as the Spring of 64. I'm assuming it was probably white canvas probably of the same material as tents?

[BerkeleyBorderGuard]

Re: White Haversacks & Coffee staining

Johan-

Try this link.

http://www.cjdaley.com/haversacks.htm

Have a great day!

Matt Crouch

[BishopLynch]

Cups on Haversacks

I was reading Don Troiani's Civil War this week and I noticed that some of the soldiers in his paintings had their cups buckled to the outside of their haversacks. Remembering previous discussions on the A/C I thought that this might be interesting to some of you. Obviously the paintings Troiani does are not original pictures, but this guy goes nuts with teh cup on the haversack. I counted them up in all the painting in the book and throught the book there were 96 men with cups or boilers attached to their haversacks. More interesting is that in painting specific units and just showing one man out of the unit, 99% of teh time they have the cup on the outside. I love his paintings, but hes really gone crazy with that. Go ahead and count them up, maybe even more than I counted. I know that this doesnt really add to authenticity, I just thought that I it was an interesting observation. Check it out if you have the book.

[RJSamp]

Re: Cups on Haversacks

OK so if you have 30+ pieces of hard tack and a good chunk of bacon and a couple of poke sacks of coffe, salt, maybe a potato or an onion.....plus a few utensils. and a plate/something to cood with....

Where do YOU put your dipper?

Better yet, take a good close look at period paintings and let me know what you think.....row upon row of uniformly spaced and uniformly uniformed troops advancing with precision and alacrity in the face of the oncoming maelstrom.....advancing as if on parade....nice looking blankets secured to the double knapsacks by the over coat straps.....

Yea right.

RJ Samp

[BishopLynch]

Re: Cups on Haversacks

so you are saying what? yay? nay?
The haversacks in the Troiani paintings are not full at all.......if thats what you are alluding to in your "Where do YOU put your dipper?"
And I agree about the period paintings.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cups on Haversacks

Hallo Kameraden!

To be brief: Period images show both practices. As stated, look to, say, a 3 day ration and then see how well a large cup still fits inside a haversack?

And as a side note, a longhunter friend of mine and Western Eastern, and Civil Artist (David Wright) once shared a story with me concerning the "western art market."

It went something like this, but I forgot the exact dollar values he said the artists received for including different subjects in their paintings. But it does not ruin the story that much. ;-) :-)

Include a buffalo, adds $200
Include a buffalo skull, adds $50
Include a rattlesnake, add $75
Include a soaring eagle, add $500
Include a perched eage, add $300
Include a sunset, add $500
Include a Hawken rifle, add $250
Include a Witney blanket, add $100
Include a beaver trap, add $150
Include a horse, add $500
Include an Indian, add $1000

Etc., etc.

I am NOT implying or stating Mr. Troiani uses this system!

Among some Civil War "illustrators" ("artists" being too kind,) since "art imitates life," they market or target their paintings/prints to what appeals to the different potential buyer market.
Certain illustrators go to so-called mainstream reenactments with cameras in hand to photograph reenactors. When they return to their studios, they use those pictures to compose and paint their "illustrations."
Their work looks like modern day reenactors at modern day reenactments- because there is a market among renactors who look at paintings and prints and see themselves in the actual history of the thing- or whom actually believe "hisotry" to have looked like that.

On the other hand, Mr. Troiani, tends to paint more from artifacts, relics, and "history." And while he often employs artisitc spatial positioning that cannot be achieved in the Real World for dramatic effect and story- his work looks more like we believe "being there" would have been.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[ScottCross]

Yes Virginia, there are White Haversacks

A white canvas haversack, identical in shape, size and construction to the tarred canvas haversack is in a private collection that I know of. It is IDed to a member of the 8th Iowa, captured at Shiloh. Many western states purchased them privately to issue to their volunteers. Not as common as the tarred version, but they were issued. Beware of post war ones that some suttlers are reproducing and that some CW dealers are palming off as Civil War.

[John E. Tobey]

Re: White Haversacks & Coffee staining

Mr. Christen,

White haversacks were issued both East and West: Paul Loane owns one type (pictured in the Chancellorsville volume of Time-Life's "Voices of the Civil War") that was Federal issue in the east, and there is another, more common style that appears to have been issued to troops in the West. The actual differences in style are another topic.

I think that an interesting facet of your post is the idea that white or light-colored gear was darkened, apparently for tactical reasons. There is a similar thread in some of John Mead Gould's (10 Maine Rgt) writings regarding men who wore their blanket rolls with the white side of their gum blankets outermost, and an officer who wore a light-colored hat -- Gould implied that this sort of thing made good targets on the battlefield.

Interesting post.

John Tobey

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: White Haversacks & Coffee staining

I find it interesting that he writes about dying his haversack. Did they do it for tactical reasons as Mr. Tobey pointed out, or was it done to hide stains and dirt that are so notorious with white haversacks. Does anybody else have other accounts of this being done?

[Tyler Underwood]

Re: White Haversacks & Coffee staining

In "The Sherman Brigade marches south" Col. Robert Brown wrote about the white haversacks the 64th Ohio was issued, and said that withen a few weeks you couldn't tell they were white.