Navy Watch Cap

[manevin]

Would like the opinion of my comrades. Do you all think that your standard 100% navy wool watch cap would pass as authentic? Cap is black. I have seen one photo, others would be helpful.

Michael Nevin
69th NYVI

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

Remeber the Authenticity Triad: Material, Construction, Pattern. Just because its all wool dosnt mean its going to pass as an accurate piece. Granted knitting is not my forte, and perhaps some one else will chime in here, but I have yet to really see any modern item that will really work for what we do here. Your far better off purchasing a knit cap, a scarf, or a fine balaclava from a reputable source. Cutting corners now serves no purpose in improving your impression.

[markj]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

Hi,

Go to this site:

http://www.accessexcellence.org/arc/beattie.html

And you will see an image showing the corpse "in situ" of Able Seaman John Hartnell still wearing his watch cap. Hartnell was a member of the ill-fated Franklin Expedition and died of disease in January 1846. The bodies of Hartnell and two of his comrades were exhumed in the mid-1980's as part of a forensic archaeological examination seeking to understand why the Franklin Expedition came to a disastrous end.

WARNING: This image is fascinating but VERY graphic and should not be viewed by small children.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[K Bartsch]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

Would like the opinion of my comrades. Do you all think that your standard 100% navy wool watch cap would pass as authentic? Cap is black. I have seen one photo, others would be helpful.

Michael Nevin
69th NYVI

Michael,

I'm more than willing to defer to the expert judgement of ladies like Mrs Lawson or Ms Timour, but I gotta say, machine knit goods like modern watch caps look, well, machine knit. Also, they don't make them out of 100% wool anymore. Finally, they are awfully dark in color -- basically jet black. I've not seen any woolen knit goods from our period which are so dark and absolutely black. Again, if I'm talking out of school, I'm sure someone will weigh in and set me straight soon. Save your shekels and spring for the real deal. Either of these ladies could easily have it ready for you long before it gets cold next fall.

Cordially,

[Spinster]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

In my somewhat limited system, the image of ABS Hartnell and his cap do not provide sufficient resolution for me to fully inspect the cap. On the limited basis that I can see it, this cap is made of cloth and seamed---not a traditional hand knit cap, though it could be of a very finely knitted material, then seamed.

I'm not familiar with the capacity and fineness of period knitting frames, but I would think it unusual to finely knit such a fabric, and then seam it into a cap. I believe this cap to be made of woven cloth.

But, back to the original question concerning a modern naval watch cap---post a picture, please sir, of the item you are proposing--If I can't see it, I can't give a reasoned opinion. There are a number of ways to knit a pointy cap, but in the end, its still a pointy cap, and the human head has not changed that much in the last few hundred years. Nevertheless, materials, common knitting stitches of the period, the look of period natural dyes as opposed to modern dyes, and such like, ALL CONTRIBUTE TO AN AUTHENTIC LOOK.

Could you "get by" with a modern watch cap? Yes, and if was really cold and the only thing I had to wear, I'd sure put it on. Does a modern navy watch cap give an authentic 1860's appearance? Highly unlikely.

And Keith, you're underestimating me- :wink_smil . I broke the ice on the dye vats one sunny day here recently, I think while y'all were off gallivanting at Aiken, dyed enough yarn to replenish my stockpile, and currently have a stack of sleeping hats in stock.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

Here you go.

[K Bartsch]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

When did they switch to OD Green -- or is it just my monitor?
Cordially,

[jigadier brindle]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

Chums,

In regard to what Mr. Bartsch had to offer, while the majority of goods during our period were hand knit, I am almost positive as to the fact that knitting machines were imployed during this period. If anyone else can affirm this with some proper documentation please do so, as I can recall reading an article about machine knit army socks during this period as well. So to rule out any "machine" knit looking goods is just as wrong to wear an undoubtedly modern knit cap.


-Nicholas Redding

[KKS]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

There is another factor which may need to be taken into account when it comes to historical accuracy and the public. If there are two historically-correct options, but one may look to the uneducated eye like a modern shortcut, might it be better to go with the other choice?

In other words, if a modern watch cap is recognizable as, well, a modern watch cap, and there are many other period options available, is it really worth using?

Just my opinion,
Kira Sanscrainte

[manevin]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

I love this website. The input regarding my post has been informative. I learn something about this hobby, its people, and our ancestors. I can't say it's done much for my "beauty rest" though.

I had reservations about using a modern watchcap, but am faced with the ever present problem of scarcity. Since my kit needs some replacing and "defarbing", I must make some choices, especially given that my wife are feeling free of Mr. Visa and Mrs. Mastercard. I will continue to search. Which brings me to another point:

I have a great thriftstore near my home, which frequently has knit hats, without labels, and appearing homeknit. How do I assess what is what? I can tell the obvious polyester yarns, but there are some that look close. What should I look for in a good wool yarn?

Michael Nevin
69th NYVI

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

When did they switch to OD Green -- or is it just my monitor?
Cordially,

They are still dark blue, but that was the first watch cap I came across on my search. :wink_smil Smae thing different color.

Micheal, if I were you I would go with a more PEC alternative.

[KarinTimour]

Re: Navy Watch Cap

I'd like to echo the words of others with regard to getting yourself a wool knit hat. I understand that everyone has to make choices about where they spend their dollars, perhaps put it on your list of stuff to buy and rank order your next purchases?

About "thrift store purchases" -- it can be extremely difficult to tell from look or feel whether yarn has man-made fiber in it. If there is a thread that you can clip out of it easily (check inside the hat to see if anything is hanging down from when the hat was finished), do so and subject it to the burn test. Be very careful that you don't accidentally clip the main fiber of the hat, because it can start the hat unravelling -- a hole in your hat IS period, but is also cold.

If you've not burned wool yarn before, do that first, so you know what 100% wool yarn burning should look like. If you buy a thrift store hat that turns out to have some percentage of man-made fiber in it, and you sleep some night with your head toward the fire and accidentally catch it on fire, the wool will smolder, but the man-made fiber will burn fiercely. It will also melt on to your skin. When I get yarn that has an unknown fiber content, I subject all of it to the burn test. Last week I got some from an estate sale, and there was a beautiful navy blue, looked like wool, felt like wool. Set it on fire in an ashtray in my kitchen sink and in no time I had 10 inch flames reaching for the ceiling. Needless to say, that yarn went into the bag for charity knitting, nothing for the Civil War will be made out of it.

Now for a really cheap, period correct sleeping hat for $5, buy a ticket or two in the Mansfield raffle -- I'm donating two hats and a balaclava. Just finishing work on the second hat. I guarantee three guys are going to be sleeping warm this season with these on their heads.

Hope that's helpful,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com