Enfield stock

[Teach_History]

Hi all -

I recently purchased an Armi Sport Enfield 1853 and would like to do a little defarbing work on the stock. I understand that AS Enfield stocks don't have the best proportions (ie. they're too thin fore and aft of the lock, as I've read elsewhere), but I'll do what I can.

I'd like to strip the stock and apply boiled linseed oil. I understand it will take a few coats with generous drying time between each, but that's about all I know. I've seen mentioned on several websites that the stock is to be waxed after the final coat of oil, but I'm not sure which type of wax to use or the best method for application. I also believe that the oil itself should darken the wood, but I'd like to get a nice, dark brown color. Should I use wood stain before the oil, or will the oil itself give me that color?

Any advice you could give me from your own experience or general know-how would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Tad Frei

[FlatLandFed]

Re: Enfield stock

Go to the "Massive Todd Watts Enfield" defarb post, if you haven't already. It lists several important ideas and of course gives you Todd's address -- he discusses ways he altered the stock to get better proportions. Keep in mind with the thicker barrel, you may never achieve a stock shaped identical to those carried by the original cast. You also could contact Lodgewood for ideas. They slimmed down my Tower a few years ago.
Paul Hadley

[Brandon]

Re: Enfield stock

As for the dark color I used a mixture of dark brown and a little bit of black leather dye and then boiled linseed oil over it.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Enfield stock

A classic:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?4498-12-Step-“De-farbing”-Stock-Program&highlight=step

Using these tips now to refinish a Miroku rocklock.

[Todd Watts]

Re: Enfield stock

The wood was not stained on originals. The dark coloration came from many man many years of handling and re-oiling. None of the orginals we see today were as dark originally as they are now. To properly darken it, you only need to apply generaous coast of boiled linseed. Allow it to soak for up to an hr. Then, before it is dried to much, which will be different depending on air humidity, apply more and repeat. Back then they almost certainly dipped the stocks into vats and let them soak-in the oil. That is how manufacturers of mass-quantity stocks still do it usually although they do not generally use linseed anymore. The grain of the dead/heart wood is what darken considerably as it soaks up oil. Many stocks today use sap wood which is the outer portions of the trunk where sap is. This wood is very pale and does not darken very well. There is nothing at all wrong with it except a lack of dead grain to darken. Modern stocks are usually stained and this is just an effort by the manufacturer to hide the pale sap wood. If when sanding the wood you see parts that are almost white, that is sap wood and you can apply some walnut stain to that part if you want it darkened, then as it dries, but BEFORE it has dried, apply the oil. These stains are sealants so once dry, they seal-out oil.

While the wood is oiled, use you hand to rub the oil evenly and help press it into pores and tiny grain cracks. Use paper towels to wipe off excess when you have oiled enough and are ready for it to dry. Ceck on it occasionally to see that drips and runs are not appearing from the various inlets and holes and just wipe them away. After at least 12 hrs you can handle it without tacky feel and when you are sure it is not tacky, simply apply wood wax found at the hardware store. Usually it is called Treewax, or Furniture Finishing Wax or something similar. The more coats and buffings applied the better it seals and the glossier it looks. But, the wax "clouds" when wetted so keep that in mind. The 1st time you clean the gun and get water on the wood you will have cloudy streaks. There is nothing wrong other than apperances and you cna re-wax as desired. They used beeswax back then I am pretty sure. All it does is apply a coat to help seal oils in and light moisture out but it really does not do much else and it was not re-done by soldiers in the field anyway.

The Armi Sports are too thick throughout, but not nearly as bad as the Euroclubs. The lock mortises on all of them these days are thinner than originals, but that is nothing you can correct or need to worry about. You ned to mainly work on narrowing the wrist/handle, defining the nose of the comb a bit while narowing it considerably, and then narrowing the entire butt 'to-feel'. There is no set stock measurement, but you can narrow it to where it feels lighter and more like originals and be o.k.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: Enfield stock

Hey Tad -

Yes, definitely go to the link provided by John Wickett. It is a 12-step generalized process that you can follow or tweak as needed. I've used that procedure twice on Enfields, and it works very well. The only difference for me was instead of leather dye/thinner mix I choose a stain color that I like. I prefer much darker shades to replicate specific examples (one is a copy from the Fuller Collection at Chickamauga) so that is why I deviated from Curt's process. Also I didn't use the Japan dryer. I live in the southwest so things dry pretty quickly here. Accelerated drying just wasn't necessary.

One other thing - Curt mentions in his suggestions the use of a mixture of beef or mutton tallow and beeswax to protect the finish. I used beeswax only, and apply it again after each cleaning or as needed. I also carry some with me at events. Not easy to find a source for beef tallow.....

Best of luck. It is a lot of fun.

Rich

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield stock

Hallo!

"Not easy to find a source for beef tallow....."

True.

A "qucik and dirty" substitute is pork tallow. (I do not know why in history, but rendered fat from say sheep or beef is caleld tallow, rendered fat from a pig is called.... lard instead.)

As in Period Minie ball "lube," mutton and beef, with beef being the more common, were the NUG.

One can make their own beef tallow by hitting a butcher shop or the butcher/meat area of a decent grocery and ask for "suet." (Folks buy it for bird feeders).

Dice up the suet, er fat chunks into small cubes. Place them in a pot, and gently heat them on a stove. They will melt, but usually not before your wife or significant other has a fit or the fire department arrives.
Being melted grease, it is FLAMABLE and flash, burn, and fire dangerous.

Some lads do it outside on the grill.

You do not want any to spill or splash, as it will FLASH FIRE!

As the fat melts, stir it occassionally. Some of the suet/fat chunks will turn hard and crispy. IIRC my regionalisms correctly some Souterhn folk eat them as "cracklin's." :) Skim those off and throw them away, eat them, or save for your dog.

When all of the chunks are boiled/rendered down, you will have a pot of hot clear "oil." Allow it to cool. The oil will separate between an oily heavier "layer" and a whitish/grayish/tannish (depending upon the temperature and time) layer of "tallow."
Or "lard" if you used pork fat.

Soem modern lads use tallow substitutes such as Crisco, or even olive oil, in making their "grease." (For the 18th century, I have been using bear oil and beeswax for many years. I had wanted mountian lion oil but it is hard to get these daze.. ;) )

As shared here and elsewhere, the "problem" with modern boiled linseed oil lies in its manufacture, purification, and chemcial additives. The gist of that is that it behaves differently from cold-pressed boiled raw linseed oil because it takes out wha ti called the "hard resins" aka substqnces that give 19th century boile dlinseed oil a more "varnish oil' or wha tthey used to call "hard oil" with its more protective finish.
Modern "boiled" linseed oil is still hygroscopic and allows water to pass through it. Multiple coats slow that down a bit, but never to the level of Period "hard oil' on stocks that were hot-dipped.
The use of beeswax or "beeswax/grease" helps keep the water out of your wood that would otherwise pass through.

I test stock for linseed oil finishes by placing a few drops of water on them. and allow it to set for a few minutes. Eventually, the water is absorbed into the wood, leaving a whitish blemish or "freckle" rather than having had evaporated and been gone.

Gunmakers NUG made their own "varnish oil" by making their own recipes derived from furniture makers and musical instrument makers. But the military was "cheap," and not interested in beautiful, costly, and 100 hand-rubbed "London Oil" finishes on soldier's guns. So, what they did, and with a little maintenance got a lad through a few years in the field.

;) :)

IIRC, the U.S. military dropped linseed oil in 1942 and went to Chinese tung oil. And then with the M16, to "plastic." :)

Curt

[ohpkirk]

Re: Enfield stock

Beef tallow is easy to get if you look in the right spot:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=Pounds+of+Beef+Tallow+for+Soap+Candle+Making

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield stock

Hallo!

D'oh!

Butcher, baker, and candle stick maker!

and soapmaker.

Wouldna thought of it (on-line resources not animal fat in soap-making).

Curt

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Enfield stock

Laurel Mountain Stock Finish and Fiebing's Leather Dye from Log Cabin Shop

Ordered on August 24
Delivered on August 26

Online ordering was a piece-o-cake. We'll see how the stock turns out.

[Teach_History]

Re: Enfield stock

Gents, I can't thank you enough for the outpouring of advice and support here. Mr. Watts, I have heard many good things about your work and expertise on the subject; I truly appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. I figured modern repro stocks were of different wood than the originals, but I didn't realize they're from a different part of the tree. That's an interesting little twist. And thanks for the warning about the wax clouding up...I would have been concerned if my stock turned cloudy without me knowing why.

The link provided by Mr. Wickett and authored by Mr. Schmidt is a outstanding breakdown of the process and will be a great resource. I'm glad to have such an invaluable pool of experience here on this forum to guide my work. Your words of wisdom will have my Enfield looking the part in no time. I'll spend some time perusing photos of originals and settle on one (or a combination of several) that best fits my impression, working out the details as I get further in the process.

I have a decent bit of experience in working with wood stains/sealers/etc., but a sculptor I am not. I'll be honest and tell you that I'm a bit apprehensive about trimming the stock down to size. I think I'll probably work on applying a period correct finish for now, and leave the reshaping to a professional at a later date. So heads up, Mr. Watts, here's your warning :)

I'll try to post some before/during/after photos of the process at some point; can't recall if I've seen any photo documentation of this work on the board yet, though I'm sure it's out there somewhere. Maybe some newer guys coming along soon will benefit from the visual aid. Thanks again, all.

Tad

[Todd Watts]

Re: Enfield stock

You are actually also correct about the wood being different today. I failed to mention that fact as well. The Brits used English walnut, and were mostly working with huge old-growth trees so they could saw the heart wood without hittin the sap wood that badly. I rarely see sapwood on originals, but occasionally the toe has a little that shows the tree they cut from was probably no more than 2' diameter. The Americans used mostly American walnut. French and Germanic peoples liked beech. The italians then and today use a claro or Turkish walnut which often has great figure, but a less dense grain. They are using smaller trees as well so you see much more sap wood today. When rough-sanding or rasping the Itlaian stocks, often long strips tear out because the grain is open and tends to have stringy spots. I do not know why this is, but having worked on a few hundred stocks I have come to get a feel for the wood and know what to expect out of it as soon as I start on each stock. If you notice this happening, reduce pressure as you work and as soon as you can step up to finer grits.

[ACo.]

Re: Enfield stock

A good post Todd with good information. English grown walnut was beginning to be in short supply by the middle of the 19th Century so don't forget that the British makers were also using a good amount of beech in their not government work. It is not unusual to see a beech stocked P53 with CW provenance here in the US.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Enfield stock

A good post Todd with good information. English grown walnut was beginning to be in short supply by the middle of the 19th Century so don't forget that the British makers were also using a good amount of beech in their not government work. It is not unusual to see a beech stocked P53 with CW provenance here in the US.

I have heard of, not seen nor read of, other types of wood such as Pear and oak being used. Anybody heard of this?

[ACo.]

Re: Enfield stock

I have not heard of anything other than walnut and beech in use for the P53 but that doesn't necessarily mean that it wasn't. Pear wood (or any fruit wood for that matter) is almost never seen in use for military arms and oak is a tough wood but has two drawbacks, it tends to check and split when used for gun stocks and it is considerably heavier than desirable.